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Toot or Boot

Toot or Boot

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Toot or Boot brings you unfiltered conversations about work — straight from HR insiders who aren’t afraid to tell the truth. With a rotating crew of progressive HR leaders, we break down the latest news and trends to show what’s really happening and why it matters for your job. Whether you’re in HR or just trying to survive your 9-to-5, expect real talk, practical advice, and the occasional laugh to get you through the chaos of modern work. To find out more, check out tootorboot.comAll rights reserved by WRKdefined Economía Gestión Gestión y Liderazgo Política y Gobierno
Episodios
  • The High Cost of Being “Nice” at Work

    The High Cost of Being “Nice” at Work
    Dec 2 2025
    We’ve been taught that “nice” is the goal at work — be pleasant, be agreeable, don’t rock the boat. But what if niceness is actually keeping us stuck, silencing truth-tellers, and protecting the status quo? In this episode of Toot or Boot, Stacey Nordwall sits down with author and communications strategist Amira Barger to unpack her new book The Price of Nice — a fierce, funny, deeply human guide to understanding how performative niceness, forced neutrality, and “civility” are used to silence real people and reinforce harmful systems. They explore why truth-telling gets punished, how identity and politics always enter the workplace, why leaders cling to neutrality, and what “nerve” really looks like in practice. If you’ve ever swallowed your truth to keep the peace — this episode will give you language, tools, and permission to show up differently and to challenge harm without self-abandoning. Key Takeaways “Niceness” often demands self-abandonment in service of others’ comfort. Kindness and niceness are not the same — kindness requires honesty. Neutrality is not neutral; it protects power, not people. Identity, politics, and lived experience always walk into work with us. Civility can be weaponized to silence truth-tellers and maintain the status quo. The “nerve vs. nice” continuum explains how we’re socialized to stay small. Micro-actions of courage matter as much as big acts of resistance. Leaders need both advocacy and inquiry to create real change. Perfectly assertive communication helps challenge harm without blowing things up. DEI work still happens in micro-spheres — influence what you can control. Timestamps 00:00 — Welcome + why Amira’s work resonates 01:19 — Defining “the price of nice” 03:17 — The story that exposed the harm of niceness 06:41 — Nice vs. nerve: the continuum 10:22 — Kids, truth-telling, and naming what adults ignore 12:03 — Why politics and identity cannot be separated from work 15:42 — The myth of neutrality — and who it protects 20:52 — The weaponization of civility and tone policing 25:19 — Advocacy + inquiry: a better leadership model 30:03 — The Four W Model: navigating hard moments with clarity 36:48 — Micro-actions as everyday nerve 40:31 — The “relay” model of shared resistance Top Keywords niceness vs kindness, workplace neutrality, nerve vs nice, psychological safety, performative civility, identity at work, DEI backlash, assertive communication, leadership inquiry tools, speaking up at work
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    46 m
  • What authenticity at work really means

    What authenticity at work really means
    Nov 25 2025
    Work shouldn’t be the worst part of your week — but for too many people, it still is. In this episode of Toot or Boot, Stacey Nordwall talks with Madison Butler — author of Let Them See You — about what it really means to show up as yourself at work, even when systems weren’t built for you. Together, they unpack authenticity, burnout, boundaries, and what happens when companies say they value “culture fit” but really mean “sameness.” Madison shares the story that sparked her journey toward radical authenticity — from code-switching and corporate conformity to refusing to straighten her hair for anyone again — and how that moment changed everything. She and Stacey get candid about navigating fear-based leadership, detaching self-worth from productivity, and finding joy when the world (and the workplace) keeps serving chaos. It’s real talk about identity, healing, and humanity at work — the messy, necessary kind that actually makes things better. Key Takeaways: Authenticity isn’t about performance — it’s about liberation. “Culture fit” is just code for exclusion; hire for value add. Fear-based leadership thrives because it protects power, not people. You can’t heal burnout inside the system that caused it. Detaching your worth from work is an act of resistance. Boundaries are a form of self-preservation, not rebellion. Leaders set the tone — your behavior teaches your team what’s safe. Joy at work isn’t frivolous; it’s fuel for survival. Therapy isn’t a luxury — it’s a leadership skill. Creating space for real humans makes better work, period. Timestamps: 00:00 — Why work shouldn’t send you to therapy 02:00 — How Madison learned to show up as herself 06:00 — The moment she stopped code-switching at work 10:00 — The myth of “authenticity” on social media 15:00 — Burnout, dopamine, and chasing the next thing 20:00 — Fear-based leadership and caring less (on purpose) 23:00 — Detaching identity from job titles 28:00 — Culture fit vs. value add: the truth 33:00 — Likability bias and who gets punished for honesty 36:00 — Leading with joy when everything’s on fire Top Keywords: authenticity at work, burnout recovery, fear-based leadership, work identity, culture fit vs value add, psychological safety, trauma-informed leadership, HR and mental health, joy at work, boundaries and burnout
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    51 m
  • The employees are not OK

    The employees are not OK
    Nov 18 2025
    Between layoffs, burnout, political chaos, AI anxiety, and the cost of living crisis, it’s no wonder employees aren’t okay. But if “not okay” has become the new normal, how do we lead, work, and stay human in the middle of it? In this episode of Toot or Boot, Stacey Nordwall is joined by Kat Kibben and Ryan-Mae McAvoy to explore the crises reshaping the modern workplace. Together, they dig into what’s behind the stats — from chronic fear and distraction to the way work has replaced community — and why “resilience” isn’t a cure for systemic dysfunction. The conversation goes deep on leadership, empathy, and accountability: why companies still reward the wrong traits in leaders, what a truly trauma-aware organization looks like, and how HR can create stability when the world won’t stop spinning. They talk about what healthy work could look like even when no one’s okay. Key Takeaways: Most employees are operating from chronic fear and instability — and pretending otherwise makes it worse. “Resilience” has become a buzzword that ignores systemic problems. Leadership starts with self-awareness and accountability, not policy. Work has replaced community — and it’s breaking people. Constant information flow keeps nervous systems on high alert. HR can help by creating clarity, consistency, and small certainties. Access to benefits ≠ real psychological safety; trust is built in action. The U.S. over-relies on employers to fill social safety gaps. Leaders need to slow down, ask more questions, and model boundaries. Optimism and connection are radical leadership tools in uncertain times. 00:00 — Welcome + why “employees are not okay” became a refrain 02:50 — The nonstop chaos economy: layoffs, fear, and instability 07:00 — Brene Brown, burnout, and the limits of empathy 11:40 — The trauma of layoffs and why we can’t grit through it 14:00 — Fear-based leadership and the dopamine trap of bad news 18:30 — Are workplaces actually built for resilience? 23:00 — Work as the new community (and why that’s dangerous) 26:30 — What we can learn from other countries’ systems 33:00 — Modern work as dependence: a new kind of slavery 35:30 — Redefining leadership: connection, courage, and curiosity Top Keywords: employee burnout, workplace mental health, HR leadership, resilience at work, trauma-informed leadership, workplace culture, psychological safety, layoffs and fear, nervous system regulation, future of work
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    54 m
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