🎙 What Happens When the Body Lets Go? Werner Klingler on Anesthesia, Altered States & the Physiology of Relaxation

What actually happens when the body "lets go" — in anesthesia, trance, or the deep relaxation familiar to hands-on practitioners? Til Luchau talks with Professor Werner Klingler, anesthesiologist, physiologist, and fascia researcher at Ulm University (Germany), whose work bridges clinical anesthesia, neuroscience, and connective-tissue research.

Drawing on decades of operating room experience, Dr. Klingler explains how different parts of the brain disconnect and re-synchronize during altered states, why the "freeze reflex" comes first, and how fascia's responsiveness makes it a living sensory organ rather than inert tissue. Fair warning: Werner gets wonderfully detailed about physiology — but stick with it, because he drops some genuine gems about autonomic "push-ups," why tears cleanse neurotransmitters, and what happens when children wake from anesthesia with wide-open pupils.

In this episode, they discuss: - The "octopus model" of consciousness — why "altered state" is too simple - The three pillars of anesthesia: unconsciousness, analgesia, and muscle relaxation - How breathing and CO₂ levels influence pH, drug effectiveness, and tissue tone - Why warmth matters: how temperature shifts the load between muscle and connective tissue - What "autonomic push-ups" teach us about resilience and cyclic training - The freeze-then-flight reflex pattern and how it shows up under anesthesia - How emotion and perception shift as anesthesia fades — and why some people wake up sad - Whether sensation is required for bodywork to be effective (spoiler: tissue effects happen either way) - Pre- and post-operative care: what bodyworkers can offer surgery patients - Why fascia is alive — restructuring, remodeling, and central to our sensory and autonomic systems - The FRECLS project: how practitioners can contribute to international fascia research

Whether you're curious about the neuroscience of deep relaxation, how anesthesia informs hands-on practice, or what happens when different "arms of the octopus" come back online, this conversation offers a rare clinical perspective on the states we work with every day.

✨ Resources 👉 Join the FRECLS project (Fascia Research Consensus and Liaison Statement): https://frecls.org/ 👉 Fascia Research Society: https://fasciaresearchsociety.org/ 👉 Video version: https://www.youtube.com/@AdvancedTrainings/podcasts

Sponsor Offers: - Books of Discovery – Save 15% with code thinking at https://booksofdiscovery.com/ - ABMP – Save $24 on new membership at https://abmp.com/thinking - Advanced-Trainings – Try one month free of the A-T Subscription at https://a-t.tv/subscriptions/ with code thinking - Academy of Clinical Massage – Grab Whitney's free Assessment Cheat Sheet at https://academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet

✨ Connect with us: Til Luchau – https://advanced-trainings.com | Facebook | Instagram Whitney Lowe – https://academyofclinicalmassage.com | Facebook | Twitter

📧 Email us: info@thethinkingpractitioner.com

The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies — bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, physical therapy, osteopathy, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.

🎙 Celebrating 50 Years of Massage: Benny Vaughn’s Legacy of Professionalism, Perseverance & Touch

Whitney Lowe sits down with legendary massage therapist Benny Vaughn to celebrate his 50 years in the massage and bodywork profession — a career that helped shape modern sports massage, elevate professional standards, and open doors for generations of practitioners.

From his early years breaking racial barriers in sports medicine to his pioneering integration of massage into collegiate and professional athletics, Benny shares powerful stories of courage, mentorship, and the mindset that turns adversity into purpose.

In this conversation, they explore: • Benny’s beginnings in track & field and how that led him to massage in 1975 • Integrating massage into university and professional sports programs — and how it changed the field • Overcoming racial and cultural barriers in the Deep South of the 1970s • The essential mindset shift for success in massage practice • Why mentorship matters — and how to approach a mentor with respect • What Benny hopes the next 50 years of massage will bring

This inspiring retrospective honors one of massage therapy’s most influential pioneers — a practitioner who continues to teach, mentor, and elevate the profession every day.

✨ Learn more about Benny Vaughn: 👉 https://bennyvaughnlifecoach.com/

✨ Watch this episode on YouTube: 👉 https://www.youtube.com/@AdvancedTrainings/podcasts

Sponsor Offers: • Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering thinking at checkout on booksofdiscovery.com. • ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking. • Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/. • Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney’s free Assessment Cheat Sheet at academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet. • Til’s 2026 Thailand Retreat: use code “thinking” for $100 off Finding Balance in an Out-of-Balance World at a-t.tv/thailand-retreat-2026/.

✨ Connect with us: Til Luchau: advanced-trainings.com | facebook.com/advancedtrainings | instagram.com/til.luchau Whitney Lowe: academyofclinicalmassage.com | facebook.com/WhitneyLowe | twitter.com/whitneylowe

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The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.

🎙A better understanding of the very human emotion of disgust can help us navigate boundaries, empathy, and connection in our hands-on work—and in the wider world.

This week, Til welcomes back Todd Hargrove—Certified Rolfer™, movement educator, and author of A Guide to Better Movement and Playing With Movement. Together they explore one of the most primal, and often least examined, human emotions: disgust.

Drawing from psychology, neuroscience, and his years of practice, Todd unpacks disgust as part of our behavioral immune system—a mechanism designed to keep us safe from harm that also influences our moral judgments, client relationships, and social divisions.

In this conversation, they explore:

• How disgust shows up physiologically and emotionally in practitioners and clients
• The difference between protective instinct and unconscious bias
• When disgust serves as a moral compass, and when it drives prejudice or separation
• Practical ways to notice and work with disgust as a signal rather than a verdict
• How turning aversion into curiosity can deepen empathy and compassion in practice

At its heart, this dialogue invites practitioners to see disgust not as something to suppress or be ashamed of, but as a doorway into greater awareness, boundaries, and connection.

✨ Read Todd’s original article on disgust: 👉 https://toddhargrove.substack.com/p/disgust

✨ Learn more about Todd’s books and writing: 👉 https://www.bettermovement.org/books

✨ Watch this episode on YouTube: 👉 https://www.youtube.com/@AdvancedTrainings/podcasts

Sponsor Offers:

• Books of Discovery: save 15% by entering "thinking" at checkout on booksofdiscovery.com.
• ABMP: save $24 on new membership at abmp.com/thinking.
• Advanced-Trainings: try a month of the amazing A-T Subscription free by entering “thinking” at checkout at a-t.tv/subscriptions/,.
• Academy of Clinical Massage: Grab Whitney's valuable Assessment Cheat Sheet for free at: academyofclinicalmassage.com/cheatsheet
• Til’s upcoming retreat, Finding Balance in an Out-of-Balance World, happening March 2026 in Thailand. Use code “thinking” for $100 off: https://a-t.tv/thailand-retreat-2026/

✨ Connect with us: Til Luchau: https://advanced-trainings.com | https://facebook.com/advancedtrainings | https://instagram.com/til.luchau Whitney Lowe: https://academyofclinicalmassage.com | https://facebook.com/WhitneyLowe | https://twitter.com/whitneylowe

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The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies: bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, chiropractic, myofascial and myotherapy, orthopedic, sports massage, physical therapy, osteopathy, yoga, strength and conditioning, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.