157: What Happens When the Body Lets Go? (with Werner Klingler)

🎙 What Happens When the Body Lets Go? Werner Klingler on Anesthesia, Altered States & the Physiology of Relaxation

What actually happens when the body "lets go" — in anesthesia, trance, or the deep relaxation familiar to hands-on practitioners? Til Luchau talks with Professor Werner Klingler, anesthesiologist, physiologist, and fascia researcher at Ulm University (Germany), whose work bridges clinical anesthesia, neuroscience, and connective-tissue research.

Drawing on decades of operating room experience, Dr. Klingler explains how different parts of the brain disconnect and re-synchronize during altered states, why the "freeze reflex" comes first, and how fascia's responsiveness makes it a living sensory organ rather than inert tissue. Fair warning: Werner gets wonderfully detailed about physiology — but stick with it, because he drops some genuine gems about autonomic "push-ups," why tears cleanse neurotransmitters, and what happens when children wake from anesthesia with wide-open pupils.

In this episode, they discuss: - The "octopus model" of consciousness — why "altered state" is too simple - The three pillars of anesthesia: unconsciousness, analgesia, and muscle relaxation - How breathing and CO₂ levels influence pH, drug effectiveness, and tissue tone - Why warmth matters: how temperature shifts the load between muscle and connective tissue - What "autonomic push-ups" teach us about resilience and cyclic training - The freeze-then-flight reflex pattern and how it shows up under anesthesia - How emotion and perception shift as anesthesia fades — and why some people wake up sad - Whether sensation is required for bodywork to be effective (spoiler: tissue effects happen either way) - Pre- and post-operative care: what bodyworkers can offer surgery patients - Why fascia is alive — restructuring, remodeling, and central to our sensory and autonomic systems - The FRECLS project: how practitioners can contribute to international fascia research

Whether you're curious about the neuroscience of deep relaxation, how anesthesia informs hands-on practice, or what happens when different "arms of the octopus" come back online, this conversation offers a rare clinical perspective on the states we work with every day.

✨ Resources 👉 Join the FRECLS project (Fascia Research Consensus and Liaison Statement): https://frecls.org/ 👉 Fascia Research Society: https://fasciaresearchsociety.org/ 👉 Video version: https://www.youtube.com/@AdvancedTrainings/podcasts

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The Thinking Practitioner Podcast is intended for professional practitioners of manual and movement therapies — bodywork, massage therapy, structural integration, physical therapy, osteopathy, and similar professions. It is not medical or treatment advice.