In this episode of the Page 2 Podcast, we sit down with Talia Wolf — founder of Getuplift, best-selling author of Emotional Targeting, and one of the world’s top CRO experts. Talia breaks down why most websites fail to convert, and it has nothing to do with button colors or headline formulas.

She introduces her Emotional Targeting Framework™, a research-driven approach that uncovers the emotional drivers behind why customers actually buy. From eCommerce to B2B and service businesses, Talia shows how emotion—not best practices—should guide your CRO strategy.

You’ll learn how to transform your homepage, pricing page, and product pages into high-converting assets by tapping into customer pain points, desires, and decision-making behaviors. We dive into AI’s limitations in copywriting, the psychology of trust and social image, and why optimizing your presence on Reddit, LinkedIn, and even LLMs is now mission-critical.

Whether you’re a marketer, founder, or agency pro, this episode will completely reframe how you think about user experience, storytelling, and the future of conversion optimization.

🧠 In This Episode
• Why traditional CRO misses the mark by ignoring customer emotions
• Talia’s Emotional Targeting Framework™ and how it works
• The 223 emotional triggers that drive conversions (and how to use them)
• B2B vs B2C emotional differences — what really drives each persona
• Why AI still fails at emotional copywriting (and what it can help with)
• How to write homepages, pricing pages, and category pages that convert
• Using social listening & review mining to shape messaging
• The rising role of LLMs (ChatGPT, Gemini) in brand perception
• Why your brand must optimize Reddit, LinkedIn & beyond
• Color psychology myths — why “red means urgency” is outdated
• Why “Powered by AI” and “#1 Solution” should die from your copy
• Talia’s personal CRO audit method using emotional resonance grading
• How conversion strategies vary between eComm, SaaS, and services
• Reddit authenticity tips: Should your team post as themselves?

This episode is packed with powerful insights that will help you build emotionally resonant marketing that actually converts.

👍 Don’t forget to Subscribe for more game-changing marketing conversations!
💬 Comment below: What emotion do YOU think your brand should be triggering more effectively?

📚 Resources Mentioned
• Talia Wolf on Linkedin → https://www.linkedin.com/in/taliagw/
• Talia Wolf on YouTube → https://www.youtube.com/@TaliaWolf
• GetUplift → https://getuplift.co/
• GetUplift Case Studies → https://getuplift.co/conversion-optimization-case-studies/
• Talia's Free Emotional Targeting Course → https://getuplift.co/conversion-optimization-resources/
• Talia Wolf's personal website → https://taliawolf.com/
• Emotional Targeting (Book) → https://amzn.to/4aC3JOG
• Heart Before Carts (Podcast) → https://taliawolf.com/podcast

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https://page2pod.com - Garrett Sussman, Director of Marketing at iPullRank and the mastermind behind SEO Week, joins Jon Clark and Joe DeVita on Episode 104 of the Page 2 Podcast to decode the future of SEO. This episode goes far beyond technical SEO and dives deep into the intersections of AI, psychology, and storytelling in today’s marketing landscape.

We explore why the term "SEO" might be outdated, how vector embeddings and personalization are redefining search, and why confirmation bias might be the most underrated force shaping SERPs. Garrett also takes us behind the scenes of launching a new kind of SEO conference, sharing what it really takes to build a brand within a brand.

If you’re feeling overwhelmed by the pace of AI or unsure what “AI Search” or “GEO” really mean—this episode will ground you with clarity, insights, and inspiration.

🧩 In This Episode:
• How AI is reshaping search behavior and the marketer's role
• Why confirmation bias is a critical SEO factor
• The debate between GEO, AEO, and "Relevance Engineering"
• The role of vector embeddings & cosine similarity in content strategy
• Psychology, performance, and storytelling in modern marketing
• Building SEO Week: behind-the-scenes of launching a new industry event
• The tension and synergy of working with a visionary founder
• Personalization vs. privacy: the future of search bubbles
• Book recs: Thinking Fast and Slow and The Alignment Problem
• Why ChatGPT might be Garrett’s most essential SEO tool

This episode is a masterclass in understanding where search is headed and how to adapt with creativity, strategy, and empathy.

✅ Subscribe for more cutting-edge insights into SEO, marketing, and AI innovation.

💬 Comment below: What do YOU think we should call the new era of SEO? AI Search, Relevance Engineering, or something else entirely?

🛠️ Tools & Resources Mentioned
• Follow Garrett Sussman on LinkedIn
• Qforia: Query fan-out simulator
• Query fan-out content gap analyzer
• Introduction to Relevance Engineering
• The AI Search Manual
• Get your SEOWeek tickets
• Mike King's Smurf-inspired Art-and-Science of Personas
• a16z GEO over SEO

Sponsored by Moving Traffic Media

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https://page2pod.com - In this episode, Jon and Joe sit down with Melissa Popp, VP of Content Strategy & Innovation at RicketyRoo, for a deep dive into content that connects — not just ranks. With over 20 years in the game, Melissa has mastered the art of blending storytelling with strategy, using AI tools like ChatGPT, Claude, and Perplexity to enhance (not replace) human insight.

Melissa shares her exact workflow for integrating LLMs, the client onboarding questions that unlock authentic brand voices, and why internal linking deserves more love. She also explores the balance between creating at scale and crafting content that truly moves people. Whether you're an SEO pro, a content strategist, or navigating the noisy world of AI-powered marketing, this episode is a masterclass in doing content the right way.

🛠️ In This Episode
• 💡 Why content should be human and honest, not just optimized
• 🤖 How Melissa blends ChatGPT, Claude, and Perplexity into her content process
• 📋 The key questions that help brands find their voice
• 🔗 Using AI to uncover hidden gems for internal linking
• 🧪 The power of A/B testing and regular content updates
• 📉 Why Melissa avoids shortcuts like listicles for the sake of quality
• 🛠️ Custom GPTs, spaces, and workflows explained
• 💬 Why AI can't replace real empathy, nuance, and storytelling
• 💥 How SMBs can stand out even in “unsexy” industries
• 🎯 Redefining content success: from quantity to action-driven quality

Whether you're updating legacy blogs or starting from scratch, Melissa offers an approach that proves good content is still the best strategy — even in an AI world.

👉 Subscribe to stay ahead of the content game.
💬 What’s one way you're integrating AI into your content process? Drop it in the comments!

📚 Resources Mentioned
• Follow Melissa on LinkedIn → https://www.linkedin.com/in/melissapopp/
• Follow Melissa on X → https://x.com/poppupwriter
• Follow Melissa on Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/poppupwriter/
• Follow Melissa on Bluesky → https://bsky.app/profile/melissapopp.com
• Follow Melissa on Threads → https://www.threads.com/@poppupwriter
• Melissa's Personal Website → https://www.melissapopp.com/
• RicketyRoo → https://ricketyroo.com/
• Melissa's Human-Led AI-Powered Playbook Presentation at WTSFest Philly: https://ricketyroo.com/blog/wtsfest-philly-2025/

Sponsored by Moving Traffic Media

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In this kickoff to Season 5 of the Page 2 Podcast, Jon Clark and Joe speak with Barry Schwartz — the legendary technologist behind RustyBrick and the prolific voice of Search Engine Roundtable and Search Engine Land. With nearly 45,000 posts under his belt and decades of SEO insights, Barry reveals how he's built an unstoppable publishing machine while running a thriving custom software business.

From automating billing at RustyBrick to maintaining an obsessive publishing schedule that starts at 5 AM, Barry shares how efficiency and passion drive everything he does. Learn how he's adapted to AI tools like Claude and Midjourney, his take on Google’s AI overviews, why automation doesn’t threaten jobs, and how he views trust, content longevity, and the future of search.

🤖 In This Episode
• Barry’s dual role as CEO of RustyBrick and SEO journalist
• How he manages 50,000 posts without SEO services
• Why automation empowers teams (not replaces them)
• His take on AI’s role in software and content creation
• Barry’s strict 5AM productivity routine & batching strategy
• Using Claude & Midjourney in real-world tech workflows
• Thoughts on AI overviews, content syndication, & traffic impact
• Why Barry won’t remove old SEO posts (archival value matters)
• The right way to become a speaker at SEO conferences
• The role of Feedly, social media scheduling, and A/B testing
• His honest view on LLM content usage and trust in search

This episode is a goldmine for marketers, SEOs, and technologists navigating the shifting landscape of AI, automation, and publishing in 2026.

👉 Subscribe to stay ahead of SEO & tech trends!
💬 Comment below: How are you using automation or AI to streamline your business or workflow?

Follow Barry Schwartz
• Search Engine Roundtable – https://www.seroundtable.com
• RustyBrick – https://www.rustybrick.com
• Youtube: ⁨@rustybrick⁩
• Twitter: http://twitter.com/rustybrick
• Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/rustybrick

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https://page2pod.com - In this landmark 100th episode of the Page 2 Podcast, Rand Fishkin returns to reflect on life after Moz, the liberation of leaving venture capital behind, and his journey with SparkToro. He opens up about the recent Google API leaks, the real impact of AI and LLMs in marketing, and how the digital landscape is evolving toward a zero-click future. With transparency, humor, and loads of insight, Rand dives deep into audience research, entrepreneurship, and what still excites (and frustrates) him in search marketing.

Whether you're a digital marketer, entrepreneur, or SEO nerd, this episode is packed with actionable advice and real talk from one of the industry's most authentic voices.

🔍 In This Episode:
🎯 Rand explains the emotional toll and freedom of leaving Moz and VC pressures
🔍 Behind the scenes of SparkToro’s clickstream-powered insights
📁 The real story behind the Google search API leak and its validation
🔄 Why the SEO influencer space feels stale—and what might change
🧠 Rand's take on AI: useful tools vs. overhyped tech
📊 How SparkToro integrates LLMs to improve audience targeting
🧪 The importance of testing and data-driven marketing experiments
🧑‍🍳 A surprising story about ultrasonic knives and finding product-market fit
🛒 Smart Q4 e-commerce tips for brands both big and small
🌐 Why your website still matters—but so does zero-click marketing
🔮 Rand's predictions for SparkToro, AlertMouse, and the future of search

From philosophical shifts in business to the power of podcasts in training AI models, this episode is a masterclass in modern marketing.

📚 Resources Mentioned
• Rand Fishkin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/randfishkin/
• SparkToro: https://sparktoro.com
• SnackBar Studio: Rand's game dev studio - https://snackbarstudio.com
• AlertMouse: Rand's media monitoring tool - https://alertmouse.com/
• Seattle Ultrasonics: Knife startup mentioned - https://seattleultrasonics.com/
• Google Leak: https://sparktoro.com/blog/an-anonymous-source-shared-thousands-of-leaked-google-search-api-documents-with-me-everyone-in-seo-should-see-them/
• IMEC Lab: https://sparktoro.com/blog/imec-lab/

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https://page2pod.com - In this episode, Jon Clark and Joe DeVita engage with Metehan Yesilyurt to explore the evolving landscape of SEO in the age of AI. They discuss the transition from traditional SEO metrics to new paradigms influenced by AI technologies, including the concept of Rank Fusion and the importance of brand visibility.

The conversation delves into practical strategies for optimizing content for AI search engines, the role of platforms like YouTube, and the future of e-commerce with AI integration. The episode concludes with predictions for the dominance of AI search engines by 2027.

Metehan dives deep into the seismic shifts in how search engines are evolving, including how visibility works in Large Language Models, the mechanics of Reciprocal Rank Fusion (RRF), and why the classic SEO metric of “rank” is rapidly becoming outdated.

From prompt analysis and AI-driven content strategy to platform-specific publishing cadences and the surprising power of YouTube in LLMs, this episode is a must-listen for digital marketers and SEOs who want to stay ahead of the curve.

💡 In This Episode (🧠):
• Why Metehan left traditional SEO for AI-driven discovery
• The founding story and mission behind AEO Vision
• How LLMs like ChatGPT and Perplexity “rank” content differently
• What Reciprocal Rank Fusion (RRF) is and how it impacts visibility
• Why brand mentions matter more than backlinks in AI search
• The role of schema, structured content, and semantic chunking
• Why you shouldn’t optimize solely for LLMs (and how it hurts SEO)
• How YouTube is a powerful but underrated channel for AI visibility
• Prompt analysis: what real user questions reveal about content strategy
• Predictions on who will dominate AI search by 2027

If you're looking to understand the next wave of search and how to optimize for it, this episode will arm you with the knowledge you need.

🔔 Subscribe to stay ahead in SEO, AI, and digital marketing trends every week!

💬 What are you doing to optimize for AI and LLM search? Drop your thoughts in the comments below!

🔗 Mentioned in the Episode:
• Follow Metehan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/metehanyesilyurt/
• AEO Vision: https://aeovision.ai
• AI Share Buttons: https://metehan.ai/blog/citemet-ai-share-buttons-growth-hack-for-llms/
• Reciprocal Rank Fusion (RRF)
👉 https://plg.uwaterloo.ca/~gvcormac/cormacksigir09-rrf.pdf
👉 https://metehan.ai/blog/chatgpt-is-using-reciprocal-rank-fusion-rrf/

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https://page2pod.com - What happens when search engines evolve into answer engines and AI determines what your audience sees? In this episode, Jon Clark and Joe DeVita talk with Amos Ductan, SVP of Search at Razorfish, about the radical shift from traditional search to AI-powered discovery platforms like ChatGPT, Perplexity, and Google's AI mode.

Amos dives into how Razorfish is merging SEO and paid media strategies, preparing for a future where prompts replace keywords, and "just showing up" in AI results becomes the new baseline for success. He also introduces the concept of "The Correction"—how AI search is recalibrating both consumer behavior and the KPIs marketers have relied on for decades.

Whether you're leading an agency or managing digital campaigns, this conversation is packed with tactical insights on AI visibility, feed optimization, and how to future-proof your marketing strategy.

🤖 In This Episode
• What an "answer engine" is—and how it changes everything
• Why AI-driven search reduces the number of clicks and reshapes attribution
• How Razorfish is redefining paid + organic search teams
• The concept of “The Correction” in AI search and marketing metrics
• How to audit your brand's AI visibility and clean your product feeds
• Strategies for preparing shopping feeds for AI commerce (e.g., Perplexity & ChatGPT)
• Why traditional conversion metrics may be obsolete in an AI-first world
• How "AI literacy" is becoming an essential skill for marketers
• The tools and prompts Razorfish uses to track brand presence in AI models
• Voice search: where it stands now and what’s coming next

Unlock a clear understanding of where search marketing is headed—and how to stay ahead.

👉 Subscribe to the Page 2 Podcast for more episodes on the future of marketing, AI, and digital strategy.
💬 Comment below: How is your brand adapting to the rise of answer engines?

📚 Mentioned Resources & Tools
• Amos Ductan on Linkedin (https://www.linkedin.com/in/amos-ductan-b516bb6/)
• The AI Search Playbook Webinar (https://events.publicisgroupe.com/razorfish-ai-search-playbook/rzfli)
• The New Era of AI Powered Search (https://www.razorfish.com/articles/perspectives/the-new-era-of-ai-powered-search/)
• How Agentic AI Will Reshape Search (https://www.razorfish.com/articles/perspectives/how-agentic-ai-will-reshape-search/)

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