In this special republish episode science journalist David McRaney joins us to explore the surprising science behind belief, persuasion, and why minds change. We discuss tribal truth, perceptual differences (remember the dress?), and why Step Zero—examining why you want to change someone’s mind—is essential for meaningful dialogue.

[4:18] Welcome and speed round questions.

[11:18] How minds change vs. how to change minds.

[14:35] How is elaboration different from learning?

[27:27] Mini Grooving Session on the difference between beliefs, opinions and attitudes.

[34:09] Why do you want to change someone’s mind?

[41:03] The moment David realized he should question why, not just how to change minds.

[52:55] Mini Grooving Session on why to change minds.

[57:27] Why some see the dress as gold & white and some see it as blue & black.

[1:18:28] Mini Grooving Session on the dress and the crocs.

[1:22:15] Truth is tribal.

[1:35:33] Mini Grooving Session on having a social safety net.

[1:40:38] What was the catalyst for David becoming interested in conspiracy theories?

[1:46:19] How to get people off the conspiratorial loop?

[1:51:23] What musical artists would David take to a desert island?

©2025 Behavioral Grooves

How Minds Change: The Surprising Science of Belief, Opinion, and Persuasion by David McRaney

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The dress

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