What if we stopped trying to win or avoid conflict—and instead built the resilience to grow through it? In this episode, neurologist Joel Salinas and conflict resolution expert Bob Bordone offer a powerful reframe on disagreement, showing how neuroscience and self-awareness can help us break old patterns and build stronger relationships.

[0:00] BG Special Announcement!

[1:15] Intro and Speed Round with Joel and Bob

[6:29] What is Conflict Resilience?

[10:41] The Neuroscience Behind Conflict

[18:35] Understanding Our Reflexive Conflict Responses

[25:03] Practical Applications and Examples

[32:15] Neuroplasticity and Changing How We Handle Disagreement

[42:15] Building a Culture of Conflict Resilience at Work

[49:45] Dolly Parton: A Model for Growth?

[53:15] Desert Island Music Picks

[55:15] Grooving Session: Conflict Resilience at Work and Beyond

©2025 Behavioral Grooves

Conflict Resilience: Negotiating Disagreement Without Giving Up or Giving In

More About Joel Salinas

More About Bob Bordone

Join the Behavioral Grooves community

Subscribe to Behavioral Grooves on YouTube

Lady Gaga - Abracadabra

Billie Eilish - Birds of a Feather

Philip Glass - Prophecies

Kelly Clarkson - Because of You

In this special republish episode science journalist David McRaney joins us to explore the surprising science behind belief, persuasion, and why minds change. We discuss tribal truth, perceptual differences (remember the dress?), and why Step Zero—examining why you want to change someone’s mind—is essential for meaningful dialogue.

[4:18] Welcome and speed round questions.

[11:18] How minds change vs. how to change minds.

[14:35] How is elaboration different from learning?

[27:27] Mini Grooving Session on the difference between beliefs, opinions and attitudes.

[34:09] Why do you want to change someone’s mind?

[41:03] The moment David realized he should question why, not just how to change minds.

[52:55] Mini Grooving Session on why to change minds.

[57:27] Why some see the dress as gold & white and some see it as blue & black.

[1:18:28] Mini Grooving Session on the dress and the crocs.

[1:22:15] Truth is tribal.

[1:35:33] Mini Grooving Session on having a social safety net.

[1:40:38] What was the catalyst for David becoming interested in conspiracy theories?

[1:46:19] How to get people off the conspiratorial loop?

[1:51:23] What musical artists would David take to a desert island?

©2025 Behavioral Grooves

How Minds Change: The Surprising Science of Belief, Opinion, and Persuasion by David McRaney

More on David McRaney

You Are Not So Smart Podcast

Wallisch, Pascal & Karlovich, Michael. (2019). Disagreeing about Crocs and socks: Creating profoundly ambiguous color displays

The dress

Join the Behavioral Grooves community

Subscribe to Behavioral Grooves on YouTube

Radiohead - No Surprises

Colin Stetson - Spindrift

Kweilin Ellingrud, McKinsey’s Global Chief of Diversity and Inclusion, joins us to discuss The Broken Rung—the missed first promotion that derails many women's careers before they even begin. She shares how to build “experience capital,” why soft skills matter more than we think, and how the right first moves can lead to long-term equity and empowerment. With practical advice for women and leaders alike, this episode is a call to action to fix the ladder from the bottom up.

[0:00] Intro and Speed Round with Kweilin Ellingrud

[5:39] What is the “Broken Rung”?

[12:00] Strategies for Overcoming the Broken Rung

[20:36] Building Skills to Future-Proof Careers

[30:39] Addressing Biases and Cognitive Biases

[35:47] Personal Health and Financial Well-being

[41:10] Desert Island Music

[43:19] Grooving Session - Networking, Bias, and Building Experience Capital

©2025 Behavioral Grooves

The Broken Rung - by Kweilin Ellingrud, Lareina Yee, and Mareia del Mar Martinez

More About Kweilin

Join the Behavioral Grooves community

Subscribe to Behavioral Grooves on YouTube

Shakira - La Tortura

Ed Sheeran - Shape of You