National security concerns have been the invisible hand guiding governance throughout recorded history. In the 20th century, it was defined by a country versus country dynamic: whichever nation was the strongest and most strategic was also the safest. But today, our biggest national security threats don’t come from opposing nations – they are “actorless threats” that emerge from the breakdown of the complex systems we all depend on – from the stability of our planetary systems to our intricately complex and fragile global supply chains. In this unprecedented landscape, what is required of us in order to keep our citizens safe?

In this episode, Nate is joined by Rod Schoonover, an expert at the intersection of Earth systems stress and national security, where they discuss the need for the evolution of national defense to address the systemic (and diffuse) threats of the 21st century. Rod emphasizes the need for a reformed security sector that addresses contemporary challenges, like global heating that leads to extreme climatic events, urging immediate action to mitigate risks and enhance stability. Importantly, they also delve into the need for political leadership to embrace complexity and local resilience when tackling these pressing issues.

How do we unite against ‘actorless’ threats, even when we don’t have someone to blame for their damages? Where have leadership and governance already begun to adapt to address these existential concerns, and where are we seeing failures? Finally, how could incorporating more cooperative principles at every level of society transform our ability to bend – not break – under the weight of our human predicament?

(Conversation recorded on May 6th, 2025)

About Rod Schoonover:

Rod Schoonover is the CEO and Founder of the Ecological Futures Group, Adjunct Professor at Georgetown University, Senior Associate Fellow at the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), and Senior Associate at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

Rod served a decade in the U.S. intelligence community as the Director of Environment and Natural Resources at the National Intelligence Council in the Office of the Director of National Intelligence and as Senior Scientist and Senior Analyst in the State Department’s Bureau of Intelligence and Research. Before joining the government as a AAAS Diplomacy Fellow in 2009, Rod was a tenured Professor in the Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry at Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo. Dr. Schoonover earned his PhD in theoretical chemical physics at the University of Michigan, where he studied complex systems.

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👉 WATCH THE MOVIE HERE 👈

Three years ago, my team and I created a 30-minute movie that provides a comprehensive systems analysis of the human predicament—spanning energy, economics, ecology, and behavioral psychology. This beautifully animated film aims to help viewers understand the interconnected crises defining our era.

When we first released this film, our podcast was just beginning and our community was much smaller. Today, more than 100,000 people have joined the conversation; and with 300+ hours of content now on our channel, this movie has become an essential orientation tool — a “start here” primer — for understanding the systems realities we face today.

This short film synthesizes years of research into a coherent framework for understanding why individual “solutions” to our global crises remain insufficient without systemic change. If you enjoyed our recent short overview of the economic superorganism, this is an excellent way to dive deeper into those concepts.

If this resonates with you, please share it. Use it as a catalyst for the conversations we need to be having. Education, dialogue, and action represent our best pathway forward during this species-defining moment.

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Over the last few decades, humanity has globalized everything – from food production and supply chains to communication and information systems – making countries, businesses, and individuals more connected and reliant on each other than ever before. Yet, with this increased interconnectedness comes more complexity and fragility. What have we lost through the globalization process, and how might we fortify our communities by investing in local economies?

In this episode, Nate is joined by Helena Norberg-Hodge – a leading voice in the localization movement – to explore the deep systemic challenges posed by economic globalization. Together, they examine how the global growth model has fueled environmental degradation, social fragmentation, and cultural erosion, and why shifting toward localized economies might be one of the most effective (and overlooked) responses to our predicament. Drawing on decades of firsthand experience, Helena invites us to question the assumptions underpinning our globalized lives and imagine a future rooted in local reconnection.

How might we rekindle a sense of enough in a world that constantly tells us we need more? As globalization begins to retreat, what small but meaningful steps can we take to relocalize our lives and reconnect with each other? And what kind of futures might be possible if we centered our communities around systems that regenerate the very places we call home?

(Conversation recorded on May 7th, 2025)

About Helena Norberg-Hodge:

Linguist, author and filmmaker, Helena Norberg-Hodge is the founder and director of the international non-profit organisation, Local Futures. She is also a pioneer of the new economy movement, the convenor of World Localization Day, and an expert in understanding the ecological, social, and psychological effects of the global economy on diverse cultures.

Additionally, Helena is the author of several books, including ‘Ancient Futures: Learning from Ladakh’, an eye-opening tale of tradition and change in Ladakh, or “Little Tibet”. Together with a film of the same title, Ancient Futures has been translated into more than 40 languages, and sold half a million copies. Helena has continued to produce several other short films, including the award-winning documentary ‘The Economics of Happiness’.

Helena specialized in linguistics, including studies at the University of London and with Noam Chomsky at MIT. Her work, spanning almost half a century, has received the support of a wide range of international figures, including Jane Goodall, HH the Dalai Lama, HRH Prince Charles and Indira Gandhi.

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Living in a period increasingly fraught by various crises and risks, it is more necessary than ever to be able to metabolize anxiety into something useful. But what about at a cultural level? The behaviors that the current economic superstructure rewards cannot form the basis of what emerges from its ashes…we require new ways of thinking and living that put us in closer relationship to one another and the planet around us. In a system structured to serve as a dissipative structure, how do we plant the seeds of something that is more resilient and cooperative?

In this week’s Frankly, Nate addresses how we, as humans, might adapt and take on characteristics that will allow us to face the coming challenges of our world head-on. Through a framework of “cultural mitochondria,” Nate explores 10 traits that will help to shape the way we move through and address the human predicament. These are not far off ideals to think about once, then forget about. These are behaviors that require deep and regular practice, perhaps one of the most important tasks of our time.

How can we become more grounded and regulated in our bodies in order to become agents of change? What does it mean to metabolize grief into resilience and action? And how do we expand empathy and humility for one another as we grapple with increasingly isolating conditions?

(Recorded June 1, 2025)

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While most industries are embracing artificial intelligence, citing profit and efficiency, the tech industry is pushing AI into education under the guise of ‘inevitability’. But the focus on its potential benefits for academia eclipses the pressing (and often invisible) risks that AI poses to children – including the decline of critical thinking, the inability to connect with other humans, and even addiction. With the use of AI becoming more ubiquitous by the day, we must ask ourselves: can our education systems adequately protect children from the potential harms of AI?

In this episode, Nate is joined once again by philosopher of education Zak Stein to delve into the far-reaching implications of technology – especially artificial intelligence – on the future of education. Together, they examine the risks of over-reliance on AI for the development of young minds, as well as the broader impact on society and some of the biggest existential risks. Zak explores the ethical challenges of adopting AI into educational systems, emphasizing the enduring value of traditional skills and the need for a balanced approach to integrating technology with human values (not just the values of tech companies).

What steps are available to us today – from interface design to regulation of access – to limit the negative effects of Artificial Intelligence on children? How can parents and educators keep alive the pillars of independent thinking and foundational learning as AI threatens them? Ultimately, is there a world where Artificial Intelligence could become a tool to amplify human connection and socialization – or might it replace them entirely?

(Conversation recorded on May 12th, 2025)

About Zak Stein:

Dr. Zak Stein is a philosopher of education, as well as a Co-founder of the Center for World Philosophy and Religion. He is also the Co-founder of Civilization Research Institute, the Consilience Project, and Lectica, Inc. He is the author of dozens of published papers and two books, including Education in a Time Between Worlds. Zak recieved his EdD from Harvard University.

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In a world grappling with converging crises, we often look outward – for new tech, new markets, new distractions. But the deeper issue lies within: our relationship with energy, nature, and each other. What if we step back far enough to see human civilization itself as an organism that is growing without a plan?

In this week’s Frankly — adapted from a recent TED talk like presentation (called Ignite) — Nate outlines how humanity is part of a global economic superorganism, driven by abundant energy and the emergent properties of billions of humans working towards the same goal. Rather than focusing on surface-level solutions, Nate invites us to confront the underlying dynamics of consumption and profit. It’s a perspective that defies soundbite culture — requiring not a slogan, but a deeper reckoning with how the world actually works.

These are not quick-fix questions, but the kinds that demand slow thinking in a world hooked on speed. What if infinite growth on a finite planet isn't just unrealistic – but the root of our unfolding crisis? In a system designed for more, how do we begin to value enough? And at this civilizational crossroads, what will you choose to nurture: power, or life?

(Recorded May 26, 2025)

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For all of human history, the oceans and the life within them have remained a stable and fundamental part of Earth as we know it. Yet, for the past few decades, fisheries and scientists alike have observed massive migrations in marine ecosystems unlike anything we’ve ever witnessed. What is driving these unprecedented movements, and how are they rippling out to affect every aspect of life

In this conversation, Nate is joined by marine ecologist Malin Pinsky, whose decades of research shed light on the dramatic migrations of marine species due to rising ocean temperatures. Malin breaks down the science behind these changes – from declining oxygen levels pushing fish toward the poles, to the cascading impacts on intricate marine food webs, as well as the growing threat of localized extinctions among key fishery species.

How has a cultural disconnect from the importance of biodiversity and the interdependence of life led to such a drastic impact on the function of our oceans? What do these changes mean for humanity, including impacts on global food security and geopolitical stability? Finally, could reconnecting with the ocean’s abundant, diverse ecosystems help us reduce our impact on these deep, blue pillars of life?

(Conversation recorded on April 22nd, 2025)

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About Malin Pinsky:

Malin Pinsky is an Associate Professor in the Department of Ecology & Evolutionary Biology at the University of California Santa Cruz with expertise in the adaptation of ocean life to climate change and applications to ocean conservation and fisheries. His more than 120 publications have appeared in Science, Nature, and other journals.

He is a Fellow of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, an Earth Leadership Fellow, and an Early Career Fellow of the Ecological Society of America. Pinsky serves on advisory boards for the Beijer Institute of the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences, the non-profit Oceana, and the Chewonki Foundation. He grew up exploring tidepools and mountains in Maine.

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In a world increasingly mediated by machines, the boundaries between human identity and artificial intelligence are beginning to blur. While some embrace the tools of the future, others quietly resist, preserving ways of being that have endured for millennia. What happens when AI becomes not just a tool but a mirror?

In this week’s Frankly, Nate introduces a new typology of how AI may shape human behavior in the years ahead. He outlines eight archetypes reflecting our varied relationships to artificial intelligence—ranging from resistance and discipline to dependence and immersion. Rather than focusing on technological capability, he explores what these categories reveal about human psychology, culture, and adaptation.

Which of these types do you see in yourself and those around you? What will it take to retain our analog roots in a digital age? And in a world increasingly shaped by algorithms, what kind of human will you choose to be?

(Recorded May 20, 2025)

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