National security concerns have been the invisible hand guiding governance throughout recorded history. In the 20th century, it was defined by a country versus country dynamic: whichever nation was the strongest and most strategic was also the safest. But today, our biggest national security threats don’t come from opposing nations – they are “actorless threats” that emerge from the breakdown of the complex systems we all depend on – from the stability of our planetary systems to our intricately complex and fragile global supply chains. In this unprecedented landscape, what is required of us in order to keep our citizens safe?

In this episode, Nate is joined by Rod Schoonover, an expert at the intersection of Earth systems stress and national security, where they discuss the need for the evolution of national defense to address the systemic (and diffuse) threats of the 21st century. Rod emphasizes the need for a reformed security sector that addresses contemporary challenges, like global heating that leads to extreme climatic events, urging immediate action to mitigate risks and enhance stability. Importantly, they also delve into the need for political leadership to embrace complexity and local resilience when tackling these pressing issues.

How do we unite against ‘actorless’ threats, even when we don’t have someone to blame for their damages? Where have leadership and governance already begun to adapt to address these existential concerns, and where are we seeing failures? Finally, how could incorporating more cooperative principles at every level of society transform our ability to bend – not break – under the weight of our human predicament?

(Conversation recorded on May 6th, 2025)

About Rod Schoonover:

Rod Schoonover is the CEO and Founder of the Ecological Futures Group, Adjunct Professor at Georgetown University, Senior Associate Fellow at the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), and Senior Associate at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

Rod served a decade in the U.S. intelligence community as the Director of Environment and Natural Resources at the National Intelligence Council in the Office of the Director of National Intelligence and as Senior Scientist and Senior Analyst in the State Department’s Bureau of Intelligence and Research. Before joining the government as a AAAS Diplomacy Fellow in 2009, Rod was a tenured Professor in the Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry at Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo. Dr. Schoonover earned his PhD in theoretical chemical physics at the University of Michigan, where he studied complex systems.

Show Notes and More

Watch this video episode on YouTube

Want to learn the broad overview of The Great Simplification in 30 minutes? Watch our Animated Movie.

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👉 WATCH THE MOVIE HERE 👈

Three years ago, my team and I created a 30-minute movie that provides a comprehensive systems analysis of the human predicament—spanning energy, economics, ecology, and behavioral psychology. This beautifully animated film aims to help viewers understand the interconnected crises defining our era.

When we first released this film, our podcast was just beginning and our community was much smaller. Today, more than 100,000 people have joined the conversation; and with 300+ hours of content now on our channel, this movie has become an essential orientation tool — a “start here” primer — for understanding the systems realities we face today.

This short film synthesizes years of research into a coherent framework for understanding why individual “solutions” to our global crises remain insufficient without systemic change. If you enjoyed our recent short overview of the economic superorganism, this is an excellent way to dive deeper into those concepts.

If this resonates with you, please share it. Use it as a catalyst for the conversations we need to be having. Education, dialogue, and action represent our best pathway forward during this species-defining moment.

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Over the last few decades, humanity has globalized everything – from food production and supply chains to communication and information systems – making countries, businesses, and individuals more connected and reliant on each other than ever before. Yet, with this increased interconnectedness comes more complexity and fragility. What have we lost through the globalization process, and how might we fortify our communities by investing in local economies?

In this episode, Nate is joined by Helena Norberg-Hodge – a leading voice in the localization movement – to explore the deep systemic challenges posed by economic globalization. Together, they examine how the global growth model has fueled environmental degradation, social fragmentation, and cultural erosion, and why shifting toward localized economies might be one of the most effective (and overlooked) responses to our predicament. Drawing on decades of firsthand experience, Helena invites us to question the assumptions underpinning our globalized lives and imagine a future rooted in local reconnection.

How might we rekindle a sense of enough in a world that constantly tells us we need more? As globalization begins to retreat, what small but meaningful steps can we take to relocalize our lives and reconnect with each other? And what kind of futures might be possible if we centered our communities around systems that regenerate the very places we call home?

(Conversation recorded on May 7th, 2025)

About Helena Norberg-Hodge:

Linguist, author and filmmaker, Helena Norberg-Hodge is the founder and director of the international non-profit organisation, Local Futures. She is also a pioneer of the new economy movement, the convenor of World Localization Day, and an expert in understanding the ecological, social, and psychological effects of the global economy on diverse cultures.

Additionally, Helena is the author of several books, including ‘Ancient Futures: Learning from Ladakh’, an eye-opening tale of tradition and change in Ladakh, or “Little Tibet”. Together with a film of the same title, Ancient Futures has been translated into more than 40 languages, and sold half a million copies. Helena has continued to produce several other short films, including the award-winning documentary ‘The Economics of Happiness’.

Helena specialized in linguistics, including studies at the University of London and with Noam Chomsky at MIT. Her work, spanning almost half a century, has received the support of a wide range of international figures, including Jane Goodall, HH the Dalai Lama, HRH Prince Charles and Indira Gandhi.

Show Notes and More

Watch this video episode on YouTube

Want to learn the broad overview of The Great Simplification in 30 minutes? Watch our Animated Movie.

—

Support The Institute for the Study of Energy and Our Future

Join our Substack newsletter

Join our Discord channel and connect with other listeners