"The enemy's chief strategy is to make dead things look alive." And wow, does it ever work! In the backdrop of yet another revelation of moral failure on the part of a Christian celebrity, Kyle and Wayne discuss how the theology of love can fail us in our desperate moments. The question remains, however: Why doesn't love and faith transform even its most ardent advocates? How can people give lip service to love and grace for decades and yet remain so utterly untransformed by it? Unless we discover God's kind of love inside his presence with us, we will remain unchanged and still act in our own expedience rather than treating others around us justly. And in the aftermath of failure, how does love restore the victims who suffer because of it and the one who fell to temptation?

Podcast Notes:

• The video version of this podcast
• My Grandmother's Hands
• Just Love, referred to in this podcast, is a book Wayne is writing with Tobie van der Westhuizen from South Africa. We hope to have it available in February 2026.

"All healing involves discomfort—but so does refusing to heal." So writes Resmaa Menakem in his book, My Grandmother's Hands, which Wayne and Sara have just finished reading. The book is about healing from traumatic pain, especially around trauma related to race. Quotes from the book draw Wayne and Klye into a discussion about clean pain and dirty pain as they apply to emotional hurt and wounds. Our responses or reactions to our own pain can either put more hurt in the world, both for ourselves and others, or our responses to pain can promote healing. The difference is whether we come at healing from an agitated state or from a calm, settled body, which we can find in the peace and presence of Jesus. This also points out why our society cannot have a reasoned, healing conversation about race today—both sides come at it from agitation and frustration.

Podcast Notes:

• The video version of this podcast
• My Grandmother's Hands
• Just Love, referred to in this podcast, is a book Wayne is writing with Tobie van der Westhuizen from South Africa. We hope to have it available in February 2026.

"Fear makes us selfish," and no fear more so than the fear of death. A book Wayne recently read provoked his thinking about death and how the fear of it can make people act in destructive ways. So, he and Kyle discuss the fear of death, and how Jesus came to free those who are enslaed to it. Instead of helping people find that freedom, Christianity has often added to people's anxiety about death by threatening them with the consequences that could lie behind it. How would people be in the world if they no longer feared dying, but saw it as a transformation, much like the caterpillar yielding to the chrysalis? Both expressed their hope for a future where relationships are restored and wounds are healed.

Podcast Notes:

• The video recording of this podcast
• Just Love, referred to in this podcast, is a book Wayne is writing with Tobie van der Westhuizen from South Africa. We hope to have it available in February 2026.