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In this important and timely episode, I welcome back journalist, author, and friend of the podcast, Peter Wehner. We dig into his provocative and widely discussed article in The Atlantic: “Why Evangelicals Turned Their Back on PEPFAR.”

PEPFAR—President George W. Bush’s historic global AIDS relief program—has saved over 26 million lives and prevented millions of HIV infections. Once championed by American evangelicals, the program is now in crisis. Under Donald Trump’s second term, PEPFAR was effectively shut down. Clinics have closed, aid has stalled, and more than 75,000 lives have already been lost—with millions more at risk.

So why the silence from the evangelical community?

Peter and I explore the cultural, political, and theological reasons behind this shift—from compassion to indifference—and why this issue, which should unite pro-life Christians, has instead fallen off the radar. We also reflect on how partisan loyalty, fear of division, and moral inconsistency have muted the response to one of the most effective humanitarian programs in U.S. history.

This conversation is urgent, eye-opening, and deeply relevant to anyone who cares about faith, politics, and the real-world impact of silence. I hope you’ll join us. This is one you don’t want to miss. SHOW NOTES

MSNBC Morning Joe

RNS on PEPFAR

RNS - Nashville’s Christian music stars join activists in push to save PEPFAR

Holy Post talks about PEPFAR

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This week, Ken Fong and I take on a sobering question: Why do so many Americans celebrate cruelty? With the help of British psychiatrist Dr. Russell Razzaque, we explore the mental state of Donald Trump and the deeper dynamics that fuel authoritarian behavior. At the core? Fear. Not fear of crime or poverty—but of losing status, especially among white men who once held unchallenged social dominance.

We look at the disturbing celebration of cruelty—like the now-infamous photo of Trump, Marco Rubio, and Kristi Noem laughing in front of cages at “Alligator Alcatraz,” a holding camp for migrants. For many in the MAGA base, this isn’t about policy—it’s about resentment, superiority, and pushing others down to feel powerful again.

Drawing on insights from David Brooks and Alasdair MacIntyre, we trace how our culture shifted from communal virtue to individual preference. We’ve moved from the language of “duty” and “honor” to the language of “want” and “leverage.” And in doing so, we've lost the moral grounding that once came from religion, tradition, and community.

The 2024 award-winning German feature film, The Zone of Interest, makes the powerful, dramatic point. We humans can be so focused on our personal comfort and well-being that we remain oblivious to the callous cruelty and inhuman brutality right next door.

We also ask: How did compassion and humility get replaced by bile and demonstrative cruelty? Why does backing and supporting Trump feel personal and set in stone to his followers? And how do we reclaim a moral vocabulary that elevates character over charisma?

Finally, don’t miss our call to action: Join the Good Trouble movement this month. Protest. Speak up. Reclaim our shared values.

LINKS:

Psychiatrist Russell Razzaque, M.D.

ATLANTIC David Brooks

FILM: ZONE OF INTEREST

GOOD TROUBLE Protest

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Today, we have a conversation that’s very personal for me. I’m pleased to welcome author Dave Larsen to discuss his powerful new novel, Green Street in Black and White: A Chicago Story. I can relate to the story - I was born in Chicago, lived in Wheaton as a boy, and worked in my first role as a Youth Pastor in Maywood, when “white flight,” the fear-driven, racially charged mass exodus of whites to the suburbs, was in full swing.

Dave takes us back to his childhood in 1960s Englewood on Chicago’s South Side — a neighborhood on the cusp of racial transformation. Through the eyes of young Erik Pedersen and his band of friends, the Green Street Boys, we witness how ordinary families struggled with fear, prejudice, and white flight — but also how kids on bikes found friendship, loyalty, and glimmers of understanding across deep divides.

Though fiction, the novel is steeped in Dave’s own memories — from riding in his Irish uncle’s squad car to watching his white church confront the arrival of Black families. We talk about it all: street smarts and playground humor, church politics, family tensions, and tragic turning points.

Dave shares from his deep spiritual and academic roots — a Calvin College English degree, seminary at TEDS, and a doctorate from Loyola — to explore big questions: Can the church truly become a diverse place? Is racial reconciliation even possible?

We reflect on the courage it takes to tell hard stories with no sugar-coated ending. And we hear why Green Street in Black and White matters — especially now.

It’s a heartfelt, honest episode I’m pleased to share. SHOW NOTES

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Today, as we celebrate the 4th of July, we have another Beach Talk with Bestey Newenhuyse.

This week. Betsey and I consider what July 4th means to us in 2025. A new Gallup poll says only 58% of Americans are proud to be American, down from 85% in 2013. What happened?

We also reflect on the tragic Minnesota shooting and the loss of Melissa Hortman, with insights into the memorial and the personal responses from Governor Walz, President Biden, and Vice President Harris.

How do we put a human face on the real victims of MAGA extremism? We get some help from our friend, Darcy.

We cover everything from DeSantis’s “Alligator Alcatraz” in Florida to Joe Walsh’s viral tweet about Trump’s cruelty. We'll talk about California Governor Gavin Newsom and Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass confronting chaos in Los Angeles, Trump’s parade flop, the Uber-backed “Big Ugly” bill threatening Medicaid and clean energy; even Elon Musk hates it.

We wrap with reflections on border security, deportation, and a moving video from Pete Buttigieg spotlighting the real stakes for vulnerable families.

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Today, I share my most recent Substack, #48:

The Mist Trail: Digital Detox and Yosemite's Reward

It's a story I will long remember. Maybe it will bring back some memories and some inspiration to you, too.

CLICK HERE to read along and enjoy some of the photos.

Enjoy!

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Today, we welcome a conversation with Dr. Christian Smith, one of America’s leading sociologists of religion. He studied at Wheaton and Gordon College, earned an M.A. and PhD at Harvard, and serves currently as the William R. Kenan Jr. Professor of Sociology at the University of Notre Dame. You may know him from his groundbreaking research on adolescent spirituality, but in this episode, we dive into the sweeping themes of his current book, Why Religion Went Obsolete: The Demise of Traditional Faith in America, released in April 2025 from Oxford University Press.

We examine the profound cultural and generational shifts that have contributed to the decline of religion in America—what Dr. Smith refers to as a slow but steady obsolescence. From the rise of the “nones” and the “spiritual but not religious,” to the scandals, the loss of clergy credibility, and the overwhelming politicization of faith, especially within evangelical circles, we unpack it all. Dr. Smith is data-driven, deeply thoughtful, and committed to honesty—he doesn’t just describe the trends; he interprets them with nuance and care.

We also talk about the fears that drive some religious communities to build protective bubbles—Christian schools, worldview camps, media silos—and how those moves may be accelerating the very decline they fear. This is a conversation about cultural change, generational transitions, science, sexuality, and what it means to seek moral grounding in a rapidly shifting world.

This episode invites us to ask: When has religion truly been good? And can it be good again? As James Baldwin once said, “Not everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced.” SHOW NOTES

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On this Juneteenth, Ken invites John Williams back to the podcast, this time to talk about the summer series, TRUTH QUEST. John and Ken review the origins of the Civil Rights (C.R.) Tour of the South, and John's journey from his law practice to his first C.R. Tour. His experience became a catalyst for leaving his law practice behind. A vision was born to introduce others to the history of race in America - to educate, inspire and transform. The Center has grown exponentially, influencing not only Fellowship Monrovia but churches, non-profits, and individuals across the nation by means of the tours, workshops, Table Talks, and curriculum development. In this conversation, John reflects on his personal meeting with the late Civil Rights icon and Congressman, John Lewis. John Williams has been in "Good Trouble" ever since, along with Ken. SHOW NOTES

Meet our contributors.

Listen to the entire series - TRUTH QUEST: Exploring the History of Race in America - in their own words.

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Today, we’ve got another edition of The Two Kens with my good friend and fellow podcaster, Ken Fong. This time, we dive into the bizarre breakup between Donald Trump and Elon Musk — a political feud that feels like your parents fighting in public. No one’s enjoying it, but everyone’s watching. Trump, the undisputed Master of Distraction, still knows how to hijack the media cycle like nobody else. But Musk? He’s backing down, but MAGA world is squirming.

We’ll also take a hard look at an aging Democratic Party, struggling to reach a younger generation. Legends like Bernie Sanders and the young and compelling AOC, efforts are underway to counter-balance the callous, authoritarian strategies of this administration. And then there’s David Hogg, now a DNC vice chair, who came out of the Parkland tragedy and has become a bold voice for Gen Z.

We’ll unpack L.A.’s recent ICE and National Guard deployment, Mayor Karen Bass’s leadership, and how Gavin Newsom is responding to Trump’s provocations — including that military birthday bash set for June 14.

I give a shoutout to my nephew Otto Kemp, who just jumped from the Triple A Iron Pigs to the big show - on the starting roster with the Philadelphia Phillies.

Darcy and Dane McKenzie: A Minnesota military family speaks out: No troops to quell protests

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