As we discussed in our last episode, we are taking a pause from Revenue on the Rocks while Ben is on paternity leave. During this time, we'll be sharing episodes from another podcast I am co-hosting: GTM News Desk with Mark Kilens.

GTM News Desk also talks about buyer-first best practices and interviews marketers who are experts in them in their day-to-day.

In this episode, Keith Frankel, CEO of Totango, shares his bold approach to customer success and growth. He explains why traditional metrics fall short and reveals how businesses can shift from product-driven to customer-led growth. Keith delves into the concept of value-driven alignment and discusses how AI is shaping the future of customer success. The conversation also tackles a broader shift in SaaS: if AI makes product features easy to replicate, companies will need new ways to stand out. Keith believes the answer isn’t product; it’s culture and operating DNA.

As we discussed in the last episode, we are taking a pause from Revenue on the Rocks while Ben is on paternity leave. During this time, we'll be sharing episodes from another podcast I am co-hosting: GTM News Desk with Mark Kilens.

GTM News Desk also talks about buyer-first best practices and interviews marketers who are experts in them in their day-to-day.

In this episode, Product Growth Expert Anastasia Kudrow shares her insights on understanding user behavior and applying psychological principles to enhance product-led growth. Anastasia reveals how to turn complex challenges into growth opportunities, offering strategies that help teams drive conversions and scale effectively.

Ben and I discuss why we're pausing the podcast a bit for his upcoming paternity leave and how he planned for his leave. We cover factoring paternity leave into revenue planning and hiring timelines, balancing team autonomy with structure during his leave, and initial nerves telling the team (despite everyone's full support).

We also share that while Revenue on the Rocks is on a break, I'll be the cohost of another podcast - GTM News Desk with Mark Kilens.

GTM News Desk also talks about buyer-first best practices and interviews marketers who are experts in them in their day-to-day.

We’ll be streaming my episodes as co-host for GTM News Desk in the Revenue on the Rocks feed.

For the last episode for a bit:

I drink Merlot 🍷

Ben drinks a local IPA 🍺

Ben and I discuss how set 2026 revenue and pipeline goals at Navattic.

We talk about working backwards from end-of-year goals, looking at historical data, and getting early input from tenured reps before finalizing numbers. Plus, different forecasting methods and breaking large goals into quotas per employee to make them realistic and attainable.

I also talk about the quarterly marketing presentation I give to the sales team to show pipeline targets and get them excited about specific marketing initiatives. We also discuss how we approach our annual website refresh process.

Natalie drinks red wine 🍷

Ben drinks red wine 🍷

Before the New Year, we hosted a LinkedIn Live featuring nine of our Navattic advisors reflecting on 2025's marketing wins, flops, and what they're carrying into 2026.

We chatted about AI tool fatigue and underwhelming results from automated research platforms, clean data foundations before implementing AI, and figuring out what good marketing looks like before scaling.

We also chat our focuses for 2026, like pipeline acceleration instead of just top-of-funnel acquisition tactics, customer marketing, and the shift from website traffic to built trust to using SEO/GEO for buyer enablement.

Plus a lot about in-person customer events and programming.

Ben and I discuss our 2026 predictions for B2B SaaS, but we let ChatGPT generate the first half of the list and gave our takes on its predictions.

We cover whether usage-based pricing will actually replace subscriptions, if AI will make product differentiation impossible, the rise of micro tech stacks, and the pros and cons of being able to ship faster than ever with AI.

Plus, we debate if 2026 will bring AI pushback, acqui-hires over product acquisitions, and whether go-to-market teams will become the main differentiator when everyone can ship features quickly.

I drink tea 🍵

Ben drinks water 💧

Ben and I discuss our experience launching a new product line at Navattic and going after a new persona as part of the launch. We share how we tried to navigate making a big product bet while still not losing focus on our existing business and customers.

We chat about how the team managed morale during uncertain times, leadership's role of standing firm on strategic decisions, and being honest about resource needs when expanding to new markets.

I drink tea 🍵

Ben drinks coffee ☕

We're joined by guest Niall Sullivan to discuss why MQLs (at least the traditional way of defining MQLs) suck and how to shift to more demand gen and buyer-friendly marketing practices. We chat about:

• Moving away from gating content and focusing on educating buyers

• Measuring marketing's impact through pipeline and revenue metrics instead of MQLs

• Showing more product details and UI to help buyers understand the value

• Creating content that serves prospects, not just internal team needs

• Setting proper expectations when making big marketing strategy shifts

Niall drinks a traditional British ale 🍺

Ben drinks an All Day IPA 🍻

I drink tea 🫖