In this episode, pastoral theologian and psychotherapist Dr. Bruce Rogers-Vaughn—pastoral theologian, clinician, and author of Caring for Souls in a Neoliberal Age—exposes how today’s mental-health system locates suffering in individual pathology while ignoring the social and economic forces producing widespread distress.

He explains how research funding, psychotherapy models, and the biomedical frame all shift attention away from the societal roots of depression, anxiety, and addiction. Instead of understanding suffering as a meaningful response to harmful conditions, the neoliberal model blames the individual and demands “resilience” and compliance.

This conversation doesn’t stop at critique. Bruce reframes depression as a meaningful signal, not a malfunction; argues for therapy as deep transformation instead of symptom deletion; and offers a concrete starting point for care that resists adaptation: make friends, build comradeship, recover solidarity. We connect the dots between research policy since 1980, the rise of resilience talk and positive psychology, and why mindfulness without tradition can become just another corporate tool.

Key Points

• The biomedical model serves neoliberalism by hiding systemic causes of suffering.
  “It’s a way neoliberalism covers its own ass… so nobody can trace back their suffering to the system.”
• Research funding was redirected in the 1980s to brain-based explanations, shutting down community-level studies.
• Modern therapy focuses on symptom removal, not transformation.
  “Psychotherapy today has become a sophisticated exercise in blaming the victim.”
• Competitive individualism isolates people, fragments identity, and undermines community life.
• Rising mental-health treatment and worsening mental-health outcomes reflect a disconnect between what’s treated and what’s causing harm.
• Debt, workplace performativity, and isolation create what Rogers-Vaughn calls “third-order suffering”—distress whose source is invisible but pervasive.

Dr. Bruce Rogers-Vaughn is a pastoral theologian, licensed psychotherapist, and longtime faculty member at Vanderbilt Divinity School. With four decades of clinical experience, he is known for his groundbreaking book Caring for Souls in a Neoliberal Age, which critiques how contemporary mental-health systems adapt individuals to unjust social conditions. His work brings together psychoanalysis, political economy, and pastoral care to reveal the deep links between suffering and the structures of neoliberal capitalism.

About Religion and Justice
Religion and Justice is a podcast from the Wendland-Cook Program in Religion and Justice at Vanderbilt Divinity School. We explore the intersections of class, religion, labor, and ecology, uncovering how these forces shape the work of justice and solidarity. Each episode offers space for investigation, education, and organizing through conversations with scholars, organizers, and practitioners.

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What if “reconciliation” lets the powerful off the hook? We sit with theologian and former United Church of Canada moderator Carmen Lansdowne to rethink repair from the ground up—centering Indigenous wisdom, circular time, and mission reimagined as solidarity. Carmen opens a candid window into her story of sobriety, Advent, and returning to a faith that saved her life, then presses the church to pair grace with real accountability: stop harm, welcome transformation, and measure change by relationships healed, not just programs launched.

Together we trace how the language of reconciliation often hides one‑way harms and ongoing power imbalances. Carmen introduces a community vision that asks those who broke trust to turn and make things right—repentance that shows up in policy, resources, and consent, not only words. We unpack why “mission” doesn’t have to mean empire, how indigenizing decision-making widens what counts as knowledge, and why justice must replace charity when congregations hold wealth while marginalized communities carry the costs. From land back to long-term funding without strings, from dialogue-first processes to resisting extractive economics, Carmen offers a roadmap for churches that want courage without arrogance and humility without silence.

We also talk about identity and self-determination, the pitfalls of gatekeeping “authenticity,” and the futures tools that keep hope practical: envision best and worst outcomes, then act today in ways you’d be proud of in either future. Bold humility and humble boldness become a daily practice—naming harm, sharing power, and taking faithful risks. If you’re ready to move from statements to solidarity and from nostalgia to repair, this conversation will meet you where you are and invite you further.

If this moved you, share it with someone in your congregation or organizing network, then subscribe, leave a review, and help more listeners find these conversations.

About Religion and Justice
Religion and Justice is a podcast from the Wendland-Cook Program in Religion and Justice at Vanderbilt Divinity School. We explore the intersections of class, religion, labor, and ecology, uncovering how these forces shape the work of justice and solidarity. Each episode offers space for investigation, education, and organizing through conversations with scholars, organizers, and practitioners.

Learn more at religionandjustice.org

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Benny Overton and Rosemarie Henkel-Rieger share their journey building the Southeast Center for Cooperative Development and explain how cooperative businesses create a democratic alternative to traditional capitalism.

• Origins in labor organizing and union work with UAW and AFL-CIO
• Different types of cooperatives including worker-owned, consumer, and producer co-ops
• Cooperatives address power imbalances structurally rather than just contractually
• Co-op Academy provides training through 10 modules and 6 specialized deep dives
• Biggest challenge is overcoming hierarchical mindsets conditioned by traditional business
• Faith and cooperative values align around interconnectedness and community care
• Innovative housing cooperative model creates permanent affordability through community land trusts
• Cooperative principle of "care for community" naturally extends to environmental sustainability
• Residents democratically control housing decisions unlike traditional public housing
• Worker cooperatives demonstrate viable alternatives to extractive economic systems

Reach out to the Southeast Center for Cooperative Development at www.co-ops-now.org to learn more about starting or supporting cooperatives in your community.

About Religion and Justice
Religion and Justice is a podcast from the Wendland-Cook Program in Religion and Justice at Vanderbilt Divinity School. We explore the intersections of class, religion, labor, and ecology, uncovering how these forces shape the work of justice and solidarity. Each episode offers space for investigation, education, and organizing through conversations with scholars, organizers, and practitioners.

Learn more at religionandjustice.org

Follow us:
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This episode was recorded in May 2025. We'll have Fr. Bruce back on the pod to discuss our new pope in the coming months!

What makes a pope "Marxist"? Is challenging capitalism equivalent to embracing communism? Father Bruce Morrill, Jesuit priest and theological scholar, joins us for a fascinating exploration of Pope Francis's complex legacy and the radical vision that defined his papacy.

We begin with the surprising history of the Jesuits—known as the "Pope's Marines" and sometimes even associated with the devil in certain regions—and how this religious order's commitment to serving at the margins shaped Francis's worldview. Father Morrill illuminates Vatican II's transformative impact, explaining how this pivotal church council set the stage for liberation theology's emergence in Latin America amid military dictatorships and economic exploitation.

At the heart of our conversation is Pope Francis's critique of modern economics. While critics like Rush Limbaugh labeled him the "Marxist Pope," Francis's actual teachings reveal a more nuanced perspective. Rather than condemning capitalism by name, Francis focused on the consequences of what he called "an economy that kills"—a system that treats both people and the planet as disposable. His groundbreaking encyclicals Laudato Si' and Fratelli Tutti connected environmental degradation with social injustice and challenged fundamental assumptions about private property and the common good.

Father Morrill shares personal stories that illustrate how Pope Francis's teachings were received (and sometimes rejected) by American Catholics, revealing the tensions between papal teaching and cultural politics. For those seeking to understand how faith can inform responses to today's most pressing challenges—from climate change to economic inequality—this episode offers profound insights into a spiritual leader whose vision transcended traditional political categories.

What might it mean to hear "both the cry of the earth and the cry of the poor"? Join us as we explore the enduring legacy of a pope who challenged us to reimagine our relationship with each other and with creation itself.

About Religion and Justice
Religion and Justice is a podcast from the Wendland-Cook Program in Religion and Justice at Vanderbilt Divinity School. We explore the intersections of class, religion, labor, and ecology, uncovering how these forces shape the work of justice and solidarity. Each episode offers space for investigation, education, and organizing through conversations with scholars, organizers, and practitioners.

Learn more at religionandjustice.org

Follow us:
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What happens when theology meets revolution?

In this episode of Religion and Justice, we sit down with Joshua Bartholomew, author of Black Theology and the Black Panthers, to explore the rich, radical relationship between Black Christian theology and one of the most influential political movements of the 20th century.

Bartholomew walks us through the theological foundations of the Black Panther Party, the spiritual imagination of figures like James Cone and Huey Newton, and how Black theology challenged both white supremacy in the Church and liberal respectability in politics. We also discuss the modern relevance of these traditions in today’s movements for racial and economic justice.

This conversation is for anyone interested in:

• Black liberation theology
• The revolutionary spirituality of the Panthers
• Christianity as a force of resistance
• The intersection of race, faith, and political power

Whether you're in the church, in the streets, or somewhere in between — this episode asks what kind of God we believe in when we’re fighting for freedom.

About Religion and Justice
Religion and Justice is a podcast from the Wendland-Cook Program in Religion and Justice at Vanderbilt Divinity School. We explore the intersections of class, religion, labor, and ecology, uncovering how these forces shape the work of justice and solidarity. Each episode offers space for investigation, education, and organizing through conversations with scholars, organizers, and practitioners.

Learn more at religionandjustice.org

Follow us:
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What if justice — as we commonly understand it — isn’t enough? In this episode, theologians David True and Tom James, co-authors of The Transcendence of Desire: A Theology of Political Agency, join us to explore the limitations of liberal justice frameworks and the radical potential of love-as-desire.

We talk about the co-optation of justice under capitalism and how eros — not sacrifice — might be the generative ground of prophetic politics.

From Antigone’s defiant love to James Cone’s revolutionary longing, this conversation weaves together theology, political imagination, and the enduring question: what kind of power does desire hold in the struggle for liberation?

About Religion and Justice
Religion and Justice is a podcast from the Wendland-Cook Program in Religion and Justice at Vanderbilt Divinity School. We explore the intersections of class, religion, labor, and ecology, uncovering how these forces shape the work of justice and solidarity. Each episode offers space for investigation, education, and organizing through conversations with scholars, organizers, and practitioners.

Learn more at religionandjustice.org

Follow us:
Facebook — https://www.facebook.com/religionandjustice

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Recorded in January 24, 2025.

Built upon four blog posts from Joerg, Aaron, Gabby, and George, this event will explore how faith and justice intersect to create pathways for collective liberation.

At the heart of this conversation is the belief that mourning, grief, and collective suffering can be powerful tools for social change. Rooted in the understanding that justice is not just a personal endeavor but a communal one, we will explore how faith traditions and movements for justice can guide us in building solidarity economies, challenging oppressive structures, and transforming our communities for the better.

The intersection of faith and justice is more than just an academic question—it is the living practice of our communities, rooted in our collective action for a better world. This event is about creating spaces where faith and justice intertwine, allowing us to move from personal loss to collective action.

Mourning, in this context, is not just an individual experience; it is a shared process that can lead us to deeper solidarity, as we recognize our common struggles and build power together. This event offers a vision of faith that is active, engaged, and committed to the pursuit of justice for all, challenging us to rethink what true liberation can look like when it is rooted in faith, community, and collective struggle.

About Religion and Justice
Religion and Justice is a podcast from the Wendland-Cook Program in Religion and Justice at Vanderbilt Divinity School. We explore the intersections of class, religion, labor, and ecology, uncovering how these forces shape the work of justice and solidarity. Each episode offers space for investigation, education, and organizing through conversations with scholars, organizers, and practitioners.

Learn more at religionandjustice.org

Follow us:
Facebook — https://www.facebook.com/religionandjustice

Twitter/X — https://twitter.com/ReligionandJ

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In this episode of Religion and Justice, Gabby and George welcome Terra and Joerg, co-editors of Liberating People, Planet, and Religion: Intersections of Ecology, Economics, and Christianity. Their groundbreaking work explores how faith communities can confront ecological devastation and economic inequality, offering a powerful call to action for justice and sustainability.

Join us as we dive into the origins of their book, the pressing questions it tackles, and the ways religious traditions can inspire transformative change. Whether you’re an activist, scholar, or someone seeking to bridge faith with social justice, this conversation will leave you with fresh insights and renewed purpose.

Listen in, reflect, and take action—because justice, faith, and the future of our planet are deeply connected.

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About Religion and Justice
Religion and Justice is a podcast from the Wendland-Cook Program in Religion and Justice at Vanderbilt Divinity School. We explore the intersections of class, religion, labor, and ecology, uncovering how these forces shape the work of justice and solidarity. Each episode offers space for investigation, education, and organizing through conversations with scholars, organizers, and practitioners.

Learn more at religionandjustice.org

Follow us:
Facebook — https://www.facebook.com/religionandjustice

Twitter/X — https://twitter.com/ReligionandJ

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