In this episode, pastoral theologian and psychotherapist Dr. Bruce Rogers-Vaughn—pastoral theologian, clinician, and author of Caring for Souls in a Neoliberal Age—exposes how today’s mental-health system locates suffering in individual pathology while ignoring the social and economic forces producing widespread distress.

He explains how research funding, psychotherapy models, and the biomedical frame all shift attention away from the societal roots of depression, anxiety, and addiction. Instead of understanding suffering as a meaningful response to harmful conditions, the neoliberal model blames the individual and demands “resilience” and compliance.

This conversation doesn’t stop at critique. Bruce reframes depression as a meaningful signal, not a malfunction; argues for therapy as deep transformation instead of symptom deletion; and offers a concrete starting point for care that resists adaptation: make friends, build comradeship, recover solidarity. We connect the dots between research policy since 1980, the rise of resilience talk and positive psychology, and why mindfulness without tradition can become just another corporate tool.

Key Points

• The biomedical model serves neoliberalism by hiding systemic causes of suffering.
  “It’s a way neoliberalism covers its own ass… so nobody can trace back their suffering to the system.”
• Research funding was redirected in the 1980s to brain-based explanations, shutting down community-level studies.
• Modern therapy focuses on symptom removal, not transformation.
  “Psychotherapy today has become a sophisticated exercise in blaming the victim.”
• Competitive individualism isolates people, fragments identity, and undermines community life.
• Rising mental-health treatment and worsening mental-health outcomes reflect a disconnect between what’s treated and what’s causing harm.
• Debt, workplace performativity, and isolation create what Rogers-Vaughn calls “third-order suffering”—distress whose source is invisible but pervasive.

Dr. Bruce Rogers-Vaughn is a pastoral theologian, licensed psychotherapist, and longtime faculty member at Vanderbilt Divinity School. With four decades of clinical experience, he is known for his groundbreaking book Caring for Souls in a Neoliberal Age, which critiques how contemporary mental-health systems adapt individuals to unjust social conditions. His work brings together psychoanalysis, political economy, and pastoral care to reveal the deep links between suffering and the structures of neoliberal capitalism.

About Religion and Justice
Religion and Justice is a podcast from the Wendland-Cook Program in Religion and Justice at Vanderbilt Divinity School. We explore the intersections of class, religion, labor, and ecology, uncovering how these forces shape the work of justice and solidarity. Each episode offers space for investigation, education, and organizing through conversations with scholars, organizers, and practitioners.

Learn more at religionandjustice.org

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What if “reconciliation” lets the powerful off the hook? We sit with theologian and former United Church of Canada moderator Carmen Lansdowne to rethink repair from the ground up—centering Indigenous wisdom, circular time, and mission reimagined as solidarity. Carmen opens a candid window into her story of sobriety, Advent, and returning to a faith that saved her life, then presses the church to pair grace with real accountability: stop harm, welcome transformation, and measure change by relationships healed, not just programs launched.

Together we trace how the language of reconciliation often hides one‑way harms and ongoing power imbalances. Carmen introduces a community vision that asks those who broke trust to turn and make things right—repentance that shows up in policy, resources, and consent, not only words. We unpack why “mission” doesn’t have to mean empire, how indigenizing decision-making widens what counts as knowledge, and why justice must replace charity when congregations hold wealth while marginalized communities carry the costs. From land back to long-term funding without strings, from dialogue-first processes to resisting extractive economics, Carmen offers a roadmap for churches that want courage without arrogance and humility without silence.

We also talk about identity and self-determination, the pitfalls of gatekeeping “authenticity,” and the futures tools that keep hope practical: envision best and worst outcomes, then act today in ways you’d be proud of in either future. Bold humility and humble boldness become a daily practice—naming harm, sharing power, and taking faithful risks. If you’re ready to move from statements to solidarity and from nostalgia to repair, this conversation will meet you where you are and invite you further.

If this moved you, share it with someone in your congregation or organizing network, then subscribe, leave a review, and help more listeners find these conversations.

About Religion and Justice
Religion and Justice is a podcast from the Wendland-Cook Program in Religion and Justice at Vanderbilt Divinity School. We explore the intersections of class, religion, labor, and ecology, uncovering how these forces shape the work of justice and solidarity. Each episode offers space for investigation, education, and organizing through conversations with scholars, organizers, and practitioners.

Learn more at religionandjustice.org

Follow us:
Facebook — https://www.facebook.com/religionandjustice

Twitter/X — https://twitter.com/ReligionandJ

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Benny Overton and Rosemarie Henkel-Rieger share their journey building the Southeast Center for Cooperative Development and explain how cooperative businesses create a democratic alternative to traditional capitalism.

• Origins in labor organizing and union work with UAW and AFL-CIO
• Different types of cooperatives including worker-owned, consumer, and producer co-ops
• Cooperatives address power imbalances structurally rather than just contractually
• Co-op Academy provides training through 10 modules and 6 specialized deep dives
• Biggest challenge is overcoming hierarchical mindsets conditioned by traditional business
• Faith and cooperative values align around interconnectedness and community care
• Innovative housing cooperative model creates permanent affordability through community land trusts
• Cooperative principle of "care for community" naturally extends to environmental sustainability
• Residents democratically control housing decisions unlike traditional public housing
• Worker cooperatives demonstrate viable alternatives to extractive economic systems

Reach out to the Southeast Center for Cooperative Development at www.co-ops-now.org to learn more about starting or supporting cooperatives in your community.

About Religion and Justice
Religion and Justice is a podcast from the Wendland-Cook Program in Religion and Justice at Vanderbilt Divinity School. We explore the intersections of class, religion, labor, and ecology, uncovering how these forces shape the work of justice and solidarity. Each episode offers space for investigation, education, and organizing through conversations with scholars, organizers, and practitioners.

Learn more at religionandjustice.org

Follow us:
Facebook — https://www.facebook.com/religionandjustice

Twitter/X — https://twitter.com/ReligionandJ

Instagram — https://www.instagram.com/religionandjustice/