What happens when a commercial lawyer stops trying to "look like a lawyer" and starts building the future of the legal industry instead?

In this episode, we’re hanging out with Yule Guttenbeil—the award-winning principal of Attune Legal and a self-described "multi-entrepreneur." Yule isn't just practising law, he’s building communities, coworking spaces, and software platforms using something called "Vibe Coding."

In this episode, we’re diving into:

🤖 The "Vibe Coding" Revolution: How Yule is building custom software for the Lex Nova Guild without being a "coder" (and why you can do it too).

⛏️ Following the Frustration: Why your biggest daily annoyances are actually a roadmap for your next big system or tech tool.

🤵 Shedding the "Big Law" Skin: Why the suit and the facade might be holding your solo practice back from finding its true tribe.

💸 Decoupling Time from Value: Why Yule thinks billing by the hour is "grotesque" and how he’s flipped the script to focus on results instead of the clock.

🏋️ The Powerlifting Connection: A reminder that lawyers are whole people with lives, hobbies, and gym memberships outside of the office.

👉 Whether you’re a solo practitioner feeling the "lonely" part of the job, or a tech-curious lawyer wondering if AI can actually build your dream app, Yule’s insights will help you work smarter, think bigger, and finally clear that inbox.

Stick around for the bonus segment (this will be published later!): We’ve carved out a special deep-dive where Yule explains the exact platform he’s building and how "vibe coding" actually works in the real world.

Connect with the Show:

• Host: Chantal McNaught (Author of the Fully Automated Luxury Lawyer newsletter)
• Guest: Yule Guttenbeil (Attune Legal / Lex Nova Guild)

Don't be a stranger! If you enjoyed this trip into the expanding legal universe, leave us a review. It helps other legal rebels find the show. 🚀

In this episode of the People in Legal podcast, host Chantal McNaught speaks with Mona Chiha, a pioneer in legal technology and the founder of JurisTechni.

Mona shares her journey from finance to law, her passion for creating ethical AI solutions, and her commitment to making justice accessible and transparent. The conversation explores the importance of explainable AI in the legal field, the challenges of litigation funding, and the impact of community-driven initiatives. Mona's inspiring story emphasises the power of individual contributions to create positive change in the world.

Takeaways

👉 You can't do everything, but every small action counts.

👉 Mona's journey reflects the intersection of law and technology.

👉 Ethical AI is crucial for the future of legal tech.

👉 Community support is essential for making a difference.

👉 Regulation is key to creating safe technologies.

👉 Explainable AI can transform how legal decisions are made.

👉 Empowering lawyers with technology enhances their advocacy.

👉 Philanthropy can come from anyone, not just the wealthy.

👉 Building a business requires collaboration and support.

👉 Ethics should be integrated into every aspect of technology.

Mona’s story is one of vision fused with humanity — from raising four children while pursuing groundbreaking research, to inspiring the next generation of women in STEM.

Whether you’re in law, academia, or technology, this conversation will challenge how you think about justice in a digital age.

Angus Murray joins host Chantal McNaught to explore what it really means to practice law in a world of rapid technological change, AI tools, and growing pressure to treat law as a business first and a profession second.

From a childhood conversation with his grandmother in England to a Masters in Stockholm and a career at the intersection of technology, privacy and human rights, Angus shares how his path in law has always come back to one theme: keeping humans at the centre. He and Chantal delve into why some of the “boring” aspects of legal work still matter, how AI can both support and undermine good legal practice, and why the profession overlooks early career development at its peril.

In this episode, we discuss:
👉 How Angus built a career across practice, technology, human rights and academia
👉 Why law must remain human centred, even as AI tools spread
👉 The tension between law as a profession and law as a business
👉 The paginator story. what old tech can teach us about new tools
👉 Why slow, careful work is still an ethical advantage in law
👉 AI “hallucinations”, headnotes and the danger of outsourcing thinking
👉 How cutting junior roles for AI might hollow out future legal skills
👉 What really counts as a “legal service”, and how that may evolve
👉 The importance of humility. lawyers as servants to a justice system and to society

If you enjoy this episode of Law and Beyond on the People in Legal podcast, please follow or subscribe in your podcast app and consider leaving a rating or review. It helps others in the legal and tech community find the show.

In this episode of The Law and Beyond Show, host Chantal McNaught sits down with Karrina Mountfort, founder of Webbased AI and The AI Assembly, to explore how AI can transform businesses while keeping people and processes at the core.

Karina shares her journey from decades in tech innovation to building a supportive AI hub in New Zealand, dedicated to helping individuals and SMEs adopt technology with confidence.

Together they discuss:

• Why AI adoption succeeds or fails
• The importance of starting small and including people in the journey
• Key principles around privacy, risk, and accountability in professional services
• How focusing on processes before tools prevents wasted investment
• Why the future of AI is about giving people back their time and letting them do what they trained for

Disclosure: This episode was brought to you by the generosity of The AI Assembly. Without partners like The AI Assembly, we would not be able to produce this content for listeners. In the development of this episode, we have retained full editorial control.

Who should listen: Lawyers, compliance professionals, educators, and leaders curious about AI’s role in shaping sustainable and human-centered businesses.

In this episode of the Law and Beyond Show, Chantal McNaught interviews Ashley Kelso, a mechatronics engineer turned lawyer and legal tech entrepreneur. Ashley will take you on his unique journey from engineering to law, the importance of an engineering mindset in legal practice, and the challenges of adopting technology in the legal field. The conversation also touches on ethics in decision-making, collaboration in law, and advice for those looking to innovate in LegalTech.

Chantal and Ash unpack:

• What motivated Ash to transition from engineering to law due to career stagnation in engineering.
• Engineers often have a holistic approach that can benefit legal practice.
• Communication issues often lead to project failures in engineering and law.
• Ethics is a crucial part of decision-making in law.
• Law should be treated as a team sport for better outcomes.
• Technology adoption in law firms is often slow and cautious.
• Legal tech should be seen as an investment, not just a cost.
• Point solutions in LegalTech require less behaviour change from users than system solutions like practice management software.
• Understanding the self-interest of decision-makers is key for engineers.
• Simplicity and iteration are important in tech development.

Useful Links:

• More about Ash's company, HiveLight
• Goodreads: Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman
• Goodreads: Good to Great: Why Some Companies Make the Leap... and Others Don't by Jim Collins
• Goodreads: The Courage to Be Disliked: A single book can change your life by Ichiro Kishimi | Goodreads

The PwC information barrier controversy was a situation where the consulting company were briefing the Australian Taxation Office about taxation legislation and at the same time providing private client advice on the upcoming changes. More about this can be read from the Australian Broadcasting Corporation here.

Host Chantal McNaught talks with Dye & Durham’s APAC MD, Carl Olson, about ALPMA’s Changing Legal Landscape report. They discuss the near-ubiquitous AI trial among practitioners, widening governance gaps, the sharp rise in wellbeing initiatives, and the real psychological load of cybersecurity incidents. Carl outlines what forward-facing firms are actually doing: holistic programmes that blend policy, process, capability-building, and technology. The conversation also challenges assumptions about flexible work and the four-day week, and why the best research often leaves us with more questions than tidy answers.

Carl and Chantal reveal:

• The scope of the report and the importance of this research.
• Wellbeing momentum and clear implementation gaps.
• Generative AI adoption and where firms are looking to improve on governance.
• Challenging the stereotype that lawyers are slow adopters.
• Cybersecurity priorities and the cost of hypervigilance and leadership stress.
• What leading firms do through holistic transformation.
• Carl's favourite song.

Links

• Deep dive into the research discussed from the Changing Legal Landscape Report
• More information about the Australasian Law Practice Managers Association (ALPMA) is available here: https://www.alpma.com.au/research/
• Here is the Cyber Security Emotional Wellness Checklist by Professor Liz Howard mentioned on the show.

Disclosure: This episode was brought to you by the generosity of Dye & Durham APAC. Without partners like Dye & Durham, we would not be able to produce this content for listeners. In the development of this episode, we have retained full editorial control.

Correction: Carl described a cyber security incident occurring from the New South Wales "Reconstruction Agency". The incident involved the New South Wales Reconstruction Authority and that was a data breach. More about this data breach can be read here.

𝗛𝗼𝘄 𝗱𝗼 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗯𝗿𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝘁𝗼𝗴𝗲𝘁𝗵𝗲𝗿 𝗹𝗲𝗴𝗮𝗹 𝗽𝗿𝗮𝗰𝘁𝗶𝗰𝗲 𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗮𝗴𝗲𝗺𝗲𝗻𝘁, 𝗿𝗲𝘀𝗲𝗮𝗿𝗰𝗵, 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝗔𝗜 — 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝗺𝗮𝗸𝗲 𝗶𝘁 𝘄𝗼𝗿𝗸 𝗮𝘁 𝗴𝗹𝗼𝗯𝗮𝗹 𝘀𝗰𝗮𝗹𝗲?

At 𝗖𝗹𝗶𝗼 𝗜𝗻𝗻𝗼𝘃𝗮𝘁𝗲 𝗟𝗲𝗴𝗮𝗹 𝟮𝟬𝟮𝟱 𝗦𝘆𝗱𝗻𝗲𝘆, we spoke with Ronnie Gurion, COO of Clio, about the company’s next chapter — one shaped by bold acquisitions, AI innovation, and an unwavering focus on culture.

💡 𝗞𝗲𝘆 𝘁𝗮𝗸𝗲𝗮𝘄𝗮𝘆𝘀:

👉 The vLex acquisition brings the world’s largest legal research database and AI assistant (Vincent AI) into Clio’s ecosystem.

👉 𝗖𝗹𝗶𝗼 𝗪𝗼𝗿𝗸 combines practice management, legal research, and AI-powered insights into one unified experience.

👉 The launch of 𝗖𝗹𝗶𝗼 𝗘𝗻𝘁𝗲𝗿𝗽𝗿𝗶𝘀𝗲 signals a strong push into the large-firm and in-house counsel market.

👉 Despite rapid growth, Clio’s foundation remains its 𝘀𝘁𝗿𝗼𝗻𝗴, 𝗺𝗶𝘀𝘀𝗶𝗼𝗻-𝗱𝗿𝗶𝘃𝗲𝗻 𝗰𝘂𝗹𝘁𝘂𝗿𝗲 — one that prizes alignment, integrity, and collaboration.

Ronnie summed it up best: “𝙒𝙞𝙩𝙝 𝙣𝙚𝙖𝙧𝙡𝙮 500 𝙚𝙣𝙜𝙞𝙣𝙚𝙚𝙧𝙨 𝙖𝙣𝙙 𝙥𝙧𝙤𝙙𝙪𝙘𝙩 𝙡𝙚𝙖𝙙𝙚𝙧𝙨 𝙖𝙩 𝘾𝙡𝙞𝙤, 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙨𝙠𝙮’𝙨 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙡𝙞𝙢𝙞𝙩 — 𝙗𝙪𝙩 𝙞𝙩 𝙖𝙡𝙡 𝙨𝙩𝙖𝙧𝙩𝙨 𝙬𝙞𝙩𝙝 𝙨𝙩𝙖𝙮𝙞𝙣𝙜 𝙩𝙧𝙪𝙚 𝙩𝙤 𝙬𝙝𝙤 𝙬𝙚 𝙖𝙧𝙚.”

Chapters

00:00Introduction and Overview of Clio's Strategy

02:38The VLex Acquisition and Its Significance

05:18Expanding into the Enterprise Market

07:53Maintaining Culture and Customer Satisfaction

#PeopleInLegal #Clio #LegalTech #AI #Innovation #ClioInnovateLegal #Leadership #LegalIndustry #Culture #AccessToJustice

𝗪𝗵𝗮𝘁 𝗶𝗳 𝟳𝟳% 𝗼𝗳 𝗹𝗲𝗴𝗮𝗹 𝗶𝘀𝘀𝘂𝗲𝘀 𝗻𝗲𝘃𝗲𝗿 𝗻𝗲𝗲𝗱𝗲𝗱 𝘁𝗼 𝗴𝗼 𝘂𝗻𝗿𝗲𝘀𝗼𝗹𝘃𝗲𝗱 — 𝗰𝗼𝘂𝗹𝗱 𝗔𝗜 𝗳𝗶𝗻𝗮𝗹𝗹𝘆 𝗰𝗹𝗼𝘀𝗲 𝘁𝗵𝗮𝘁 𝗷𝘂𝘀𝘁𝗶𝗰𝗲 𝗴𝗮𝗽?At 𝗖𝗹𝗶𝗼 𝗜𝗻𝗻𝗼𝘃𝗮𝘁𝗲 𝗟𝗲𝗴𝗮𝗹 𝟮𝟬𝟮𝟱 𝗦𝘆𝗱𝗻𝗲𝘆, Jack Newton, CEO of Clio, shared how their vision goes far beyond legal software — it’s about transforming the entire legal experience for all.

AI, he believes, will play a pivotal role in bridging the justice gap by:

👉 Reducing the friction and cost of accessing legal help.

👉 Helping consumers recognise when they have a legal issue.

👉 Empowering lawyers to deliver better outcomes, faster and more efficiently.

👉 Unifying the business and practice of law into one intelligent platform.

As Jack put it, “𝗔𝗜 𝘄𝗶𝗹𝗹 𝗲𝗻𝗮𝗯𝗹𝗲 𝗹𝗮𝘄𝘆𝗲𝗿𝘀 𝘁𝗼 𝘀𝗲𝗿𝘃𝗲 𝗺𝗼𝗿𝗲 𝗽𝗲𝗼𝗽𝗹𝗲 — 𝗻𝗼𝘁 𝗳𝗲𝘄𝗲𝗿 — 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝘁𝗿𝗮𝗻𝘀𝗳𝗼𝗿𝗺 𝘁𝗵𝗲 $𝟯 𝘁𝗿𝗶𝗹𝗹𝗶𝗼𝗻 𝘂𝗻𝗺𝗲𝘁 𝗹𝗲𝗴𝗮𝗹 𝗺𝗮𝗿𝗸𝗲𝘁 𝗶𝗻𝘁𝗼 𝗼𝗽𝗽𝗼𝗿𝘁𝘂𝗻𝗶𝘁𝘆.

”In a world where technology often feels distant, this conversation was a reminder that AI in law isn’t about replacing humans — it’s about helping more people get the help they deserve.

Chapters

00:00Trends in Legal Technology

02:45Access to Justice and AI's Role

05:16Transforming Legal Services for Consumers

#PeopleInLegal #Clio #LegalTech #AccessToJustice hashtag#AI #Innovation #LegalIndustry #ClioInnovateLegal #LegalExperience