This week on Out of Interest, we’re joined by one of Australia’s most respected and fearless crime journalists - Andrew Rule.

With a career spanning over four decades, Andrew has spent his life diving deep into the world of crime, corruption, and the human stories behind headlines. He’s best known as the co-creator of the iconic Underbelly TV series, which was based on the explosive books he co-wrote with John Silvester. That series was so controversial it was banned in Victoria — and as a result, pirated DVD sales exploded in pubs and job sites across the state.

But Andrew’s work goes far beyond what you’ve seen on screen. As the host of the hugely popular podcast Life and Crimes with Andrew Rule, he takes listeners into the gritty underworld of Australia and beyond — telling stories of drug smugglers, violent killers, and the systemic failures that let them slip through the cracks.

In this episode, we unpack stories that will make your jaw drop:

The escape of David McMillan, a man who went from school science labs to becoming a globe-trotting drug smuggler. Imprisoned across multiple continents, McMillan made history by being the first Westerner to escape Thailand’s infamous Bangkok Hilton prison — using nothing but bribes and a parasol.

Andrew’s take on why people commit horrendous crimes, like the Menendez brothers — often tracing back to a history of childhood trauma.

He reflects on covering major world tragedies — from the Bali bombings, to Christchurch earthquakes, and the Japanese tsunami — and the emotional toll of bearing witness to human suffering, even if it doesn’t leave him with PTSD.

A fascinating insight into why all criminals are gamblers, willing to stake their freedom or life for a shot at getting away with it.

What it’s really like being a crime reporter: the real fear isn’t the criminals — it’s being sued by rich, powerful people who don’t want their dirty laundry aired.

Andrew also shares the golden rule of crime writing: “If you can’t prove it, don’t publish it.” He’s seen the dangers of upsetting not just gangsters, but corrupt cops, who know the system inside out and have more motive than most to silence a story.

This is an episode packed with raw truths, shocking stories, and rare access into the mind of someone who’s seen the dark side of society up close.

🎧 Listen now and discover the hidden crimes, psychological twists, and moral complexities that lie beneath the surface of everyday Australia.

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Hejaz, Australia’s leading financial group, offers a comprehensive suite of Sharia-compliant products and services to the Islamic community. Dive into the world of Islamic finance and discover more about Hejaz Financial Services at:

www.hejazfs.com.au

Hosted by Ali Ozyon:
📷 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mrozyon/
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ali-ozyon-75168285/

Co-Hosted by Muzzammil Dhedhy:
📷 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/muftimuzza/

Connect with Out of Interest Podcast:
📷 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/oointerest/
🎵 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@oointerest
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/Out of Interest /
🐦 Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/oointerest
🌐 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/oointerest

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For business enquiries or if you have any questions, please email:
aozyon@hejazfs.com.au

Thanks!

Join us in this heartfelt conversation with Leila McDougall, an extraordinary woman whose journey embodies resilience, determination, and genuine Australian spirit. Leila opens up about the raw realities of running a farm—revealing the heavy burdens, isolation, financial pressures, and generational debt often passed down within farming families.

She courageously shares her personal struggles, from overcoming dyslexia and navigating her own mental health challenges to supporting loved ones battling bipolar disorder and suicidal ideation. Through her groundbreaking initiative, "Mellow in the Yellow," Leila is driving crucial conversations about mental health and suicide prevention in farming communities.

Leila's commitment to creating awareness led her to produce the deeply personal and award-winning film, "Just a Farmer." She reveals the immense hurdles faced while bringing this project to life, from self-funding the production and financial crises mid-filming to persistent rejections by streaming platforms. Despite the setbacks, Leila remained dedicated to spreading her powerful message, believing that if the film could save even one life, every sacrifice was worth it.

This is a genuine, inspiring episode shining a much-needed spotlight on rural life, mental health, and the incredible power of storytelling to create change.

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Hejaz, Australia’s leading financial group, offers a comprehensive suite of Sharia-compliant products and services to the Islamic community. Dive into the world of Islamic finance and discover more about Hejaz Financial Services at:

www.hejazfs.com.au

Hosted by Ali Ozyon:
📷 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mrozyon/
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ali-ozyon-75168285/

Co-Hosted by Muzzammil Dhedhy:
📷 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/muftimuzza/

Connect with Out of Interest Podcast:
📷 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/oointerest/
🎵 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@oointerest
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/Out of Interest /
🐦 Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/oointerest
🌐 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/oointerest

------------------------------------------------------------

For business enquiries or if you have any questions, please email:
aozyon@hejazfs.com.au

Thanks!

In this episode of Out of Interest, Ali and Muzza sit down with Dr. Ali Abdo — 3x Olympian, osteopath, and one of the most respected wrestling figures in Australia.

From representing Australia on the Olympic stage to now mentoring the next generation of young athletes, Dr. Ali shares a deeply personal journey of sacrifice, discipline, and cultural pride. But more than just athletic success, this conversation explores what’s being lost in today’s combat sports — and why discipline, respect, and character still matter.

Topics covered include:
– What it really takes to reach the Olympics
– Wrestling vs. jiu-jitsu: the technical breakdown
– The brutal reality of cutting weight for competitions
– Whether chiropractors are a scam (from an osteo’s perspective)
– Why Australia doesn’t value athletes like other countries
– The influence of his father and the role of faith
– Wrestling’s role in MMA and modern sport
– What training in Japan taught him about respect and punctuality

Dr. Ali doesn’t just speak from experience - he speaks from the heart. Whether you’re an athlete, coach, parent, or just someone trying to live with more purpose and grit, this episode is a must-listen.

🎧 Available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and all major platforms.

------------------------------------------------------------

Hejaz, Australia’s leading financial group, offers a comprehensive suite of Sharia-compliant products and services to the Islamic community. Dive into the world of Islamic finance and discover more about Hejaz Financial Services at:

www.hejazfs.com.au

Hosted by Ali Ozyon:
📷 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mrozyon/
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ali-ozyon-75168285/

Co-Hosted by Muzzammil Dhedhy:
📷 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/muftimuzza/

Connect with Out of Interest Podcast:
📷 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/oointerest/
🎵 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@oointerest
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/Out of Interest /
🐦 Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/oointerest
🌐 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/oointerest

------------------------------------------------------------

For business enquiries or if you have any questions, please email:
aozyon@hejazfs.com.au

Thanks!