The historic 1219 meeting between St. Francis of Assisi and Sultan Malik al-Kamil during the Fifth Crusade is a powerful (and often overlooked) example of peacemaking and respectful dialogue between Christians and Muslims. While most people only know Francis’s side of the story, the Sultan’s openness and courage were just as important. Their surprising friendship still offers a hopeful model today for bridging deep divisions, reducing polarization, and having real conversations across religious and cultural lines.

Fr. Michael Calabria is a Franciscan friar at the Province of Our Lady of Guadalupe and director of the Center for Arab and Islamic Studies at St. Bonaventure University. With more than 40 years of experience in the Middle East and Islamic world, he first fell in love with the region as an Egyptology student doing archaeological work in Egypt (BA Johns Hopkins, MA Brown). After working as an academic librarian in New York, he joined the Franciscan Order in 1996, later earning divinity degrees and a PhD in Islamic Studies from the University of Exeter in England. He has lived in Cairo multiple times, ministered in a leprosarium, and taught English at a Coptic Catholic seminary. Since 2003 he has taught Arabic and Islamic Studies at St. Bonaventure University, where he founded the Center for Arab and Islamic Studies. He is the author of the 2022 book The Language of the Taj Mahal, which explores the Qur’anic inscriptions on the monument, and has appeared in documentaries including The Sultan and the Saint (2016) and Islam’s Greatest Stories of Love (2025).

(00:00:01) Introduction

(00:03:20) Historical Context

(00:09:37) Francis’ Arrival in Egypt and His Mission

(00:16:19) The Encounter with Sultan Malik al-Kamil

(00:23:20) Francis’ Counter-Cultural Approach

(00:27:15) The Sultan’s Impact on Francis

(00:31:29) Francis’ Legacy and Missionary Approach

(00:36:26) Bridging Faiths

(00:42:55) Lessons from History: Interfaith Dialogue and Vatican II

(00:45:12) This Story’s Relevance Today

(00:48:00) The Nature of Goodness: Understanding Faith Beyond Labels

(00:52:02) Religion, Conflict, and the Human Element

(00:56:03) The Enrichment of Faith: Learning from Other Traditions

(01:02:34) The Call to Open Hearts: Interfaith Dialogue in Action

(01:09:20) Conclusion

What does it mean to age with grace, to let go without losing hope, and to face life’s deepest losses with open hands? What does it mean to move toward spiritual maturity as life unfolds, and how can a spirituality of letting go help take us there? In this conversation, Fr. Ronald Rolheiser joins Off the Page to explore themes from his powerful new book, Insane for the Light: A Spirituality for Our Wisdom Years, which was released on October 28, 2025. From the raw beauty of metanoia to the transformative power of passivity, Fr. Ron reveals how suffering, helplessness, and even death can become our greatest gifts—if we dare to live while we’re dying.

Ronald Rolheiser, OMI, is a Roman Catholic priest and member of the Missionary Oblates of Mary Immaculate. He is a theologian, professor, award-winning author, and served as president of the Oblate School of Theology. He is known for his lectures, globally-syndicated column "In Exile," and his bestselling books The Holy Longing and Sacred Fire.

The show notes are available here.

(00:00:01) Introduction

(00:01:57) Spirituality of Aging

(00:03:46) Wisdom Years

(00:05:41) Insane for the Light: Story Behind the Title

(00:07:45) Getting Our Lives Together, Giving Our Lives Away

(00:12:53) Reflection No. 1: Seven Movements Toward Spiritual Maturity

(00:14:32) Giving Your Death Away

(00:15:58) Metanoia and Paranoia

(00:20:36) Pondering: Carrying and Transforming Tension

(00:27:27) How Pain Can Deepen Us

(00:34:59) Dark Nights of Faith

(00:38:37) “My God, My God, Why Have You Forsaken Me?”

(00:42:57) When the Power Point Stops Working

(00:43:53) Reflection No. 2: Take On Your Higher Mind

(00:46:43) Understanding More By Not Understanding

(00:48:06) Activity and Passivity

(00:54:10) When You Feel Helpless

(00:58:16) Reflection No. 3: Activity and Passivity

(00:58:30) The Gift and Challenge of Passivity (Passion)

(01:03:50) When You’re Told You Don’t Have Much Time to Live

(01:07:07) A Creed for Giving Your Life and Death Away

(01:09:15) Conclusion

St. Francis of Assisi famously prayed, “Who are you, my God, and who am I?” Greg Cellini found himself praying a similar prayer after almost three decades of working and climbing within the pharmaceutical industry. That's when everything changed. He began the process of entering religious life.

His journey is one that invites each of us to contemplate the source of our dreams and desires and consider who we are at the core of our identity. The timing of this conversation, just after the Feast Day of St. Francis and at the start of Franciscan Month, invites each of us to consider our own callings and dare to pray the prayer St. Francis prayed.

Brother Greg Cellini, OSF, is a Franciscan Brother of Brooklyn. His primary ministry is at St. Francis College where he has served as an adjunct professor as well as director of the Office of Mission, Ministry, and Interfaith dialogue. He is the host of "Thank God For Monday," a weekly radio talk show about the workplace. He is a graduate of St. Bonaventure University’s advanced certificate in Franciscan Studies. He also earned degrees at Rutgers Graduate School of Management and Seton Hall University Stillman School of Business. He is the author of Transform Yourself - Transform the World: A Franciscan View of Career.

Click here to view the show notes for this episode.

(00:00:01) Introduction

(00:01:59) Climbing in the Corporate World

(00:03:59) Spiritual Background

(00:05:43) When God Calls You Elsewhere

(00:10:18) Dreams and Desires: What is the Source?

(00:13:38) Holy Surrender

(00:17:26) Reflection No. 1: Dreams and Desires

(00:20:02) A Mysterious Encounter and the Call to Religious Life

(00:25:18) Why the Franciscans?

(00:27:36) Ordered Love, Dis-ordered Love, and Performance

(00:31:49) Reflection No. 2: Remembering Your Identity

(00:35:13) Entering Religious Life and Going Inward

(00:38:57) The Blessings of Failure and Endings

(00:44:13) What is Downward Mobility?

(00:48:10) Reflection No. 3: Downward Mobility

(00:49:56) Education and the Franciscan Charism

(00:55:06) The Challenges Young People Face

(01:00:26) What is Franciscan Month?

(01:08:20) Closing Reflections and Prayer

(01:09:54) Conclusion

Thomas Merton once wrote, “Let us come alive to the splendor that is all around us and see the beauty in ordinary things.” The busyness of life—work, family, commitments, and our seeming ever-lengthening to-do lists—can sweep us into a lifestyle of frantic doing and accomplishing that can lead to a lack of presence and awareness to the splendor that is all around us. Wonder and praise can sometimes take a backseat as we become hyper-focused on what needs to be done. Practicing presence is a lifelong journey, but what a wonderful journey it is, as our awareness for divine goodness and beauty and grace deepens and expands within us, and as our desires become channeled in a way that leads us toward joy, peace, and contentment. Mark Longhurst’s book, The Holy Ordinary: A Way to God (October 2024, Monkfish), explores this exact topic and helps readers awaken to the sacred in the ordinary. What does it look like to live contemplatively as life uniquely unfolds for each of us, even in the busyness? Influential author and theologian Brian McClaren says this of Longhurst's book: “For years, I’ve been wishing for a book that could introduce ordinary people to the spiritual life in a healthy, honest, accessible way. Mark Longhurst has written what I’ve been waiting for.”

Mark Longhurst is a writer, an “ordinary mystic,” and member of the new monastic “Community of the Incarnation.” He works as the Publications Manager at the Center for Action and Contemplation and is a former pastor who served United Church of Christ churches for 10 years and worked as a faith-based social justice activist in the Boston area for 10 more. A graduate of Harvard Divinity School and a longtime yoga practitioner, Mark lives in western Massachusetts with his family. Click here for the episode page and show notes.

(00:00:01) Introduction

(00:02:39) Why Write this Book?

(00:04:17) Struggling to Notice the Holy Ordinary

(00:09:24) What Do We Mean by "Deeper Reality"?

(00:11:50) Reflection No. 1: Letting Wonder and Praise Sing through Our Lives

(00:14:41) What Does it Look Like to "Receive Grace"?

(00:17:23) Emptiness and Letting Go

(00:22:33) Contemplation: Not a Flight From the World

(00:28:35) What is Holiness?

(00:35:34) Reflection No. 2: Thin Places

(00:37:34) Mark Longhurst's Spiritual Journey

(00:40:50) Contemplative Practice and the Importance of Community

(00:44:44) The Holy Ordinary and Lived Experience

(00:46:04) Reflection No. 3: Welcoming the Holy Spirit Into Our Inner Margins

(00:48:30) Contemplation and Desire

(00:56:48) Final Thoughts

(00:58:56) Conclusion

In the year 1202, a young Giovanni Bernardone, who we would come to know as St. Francis of Assisi, was captured in a conflict between Assisi and Perugia and held as a prisoner of war for about a year. This horrific experience as a prisoner of war changed Francis, and he likely ventured through life suffering from what we would now call PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder). And yet, Francis undoubtedly became a “wounded healer" for others and the world. So, what about us? What brokenness do we carry? What traumas do our bodies hold? How can we move toward wholeness and healing and ultimately use our stories to become wounded healers for others?

This episode's guest is Richard B. Patterson, PhD, a clinical psychologist and trauma therapist practicing in El Paso, Texas. Two of the primary groups he has worked with in his career as a therapist are combat veterans and victims of clergy abuse. He is a regular contributor to St. Anthony Messenger who has a new piece in the July/August issue titled, “Turn to the Beatitudes.”

Click here to read this episode's show notes: https://www.franciscanmedia.org/off-the-page-by-franciscan-media/.

Disclaimer: This episode discusses sensitive topics, including historical and modern experiences of trauma, war, and sexual abuse, which may be triggering. If listening brings up difficult emotions, please reach out to a trusted therapist or contact a support resource like the National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI) at 1-800-950-6264. We encourage prioritizing your well-being.

(00:00:01) Introduction

(00:03:42) Becoming a Clinical Psychologist and Trauma Therapist

(00:06:38) Working with Victims of Clergy Abuse

(00:13:23) Wrestling with Catholicism and the Church

(00:18:28) Working with Combat Veterans and Becoming a Wounded Healer

(00:24:13) What Listeners Should Know about People Suffering from PTSD

(00:27:22) What is Trauma?

(00:31:42) Moving Through Trauma

(00:35:08) Your Trauma Doesn't Define You

(00:38:48) Anger with God and the Complexity of Trauma

(00:46:31) Tools in the Christian Tradition for Navigating Grief and Trauma

(00:51:12) Self-Rejection: An Enemy of the Spiritual Life

(00:54:36) St. Francis of Assisi's PTSD and Spiritual Awakening

(01:00:31) Grief: 'Blessed Are Those Who Mourn'

(01:06:41) Trauma Resources and Advice for Therapy

(01:10:05) The Healing Power of Listening and Presence

(01:13:12) Conclusion

The Trinity is a central component of Christian theology, and certainly Franciscanism as well, as seen in the mystical theology of St. Bonaventure and other Franciscan theologians. But there’s a problem: The Trinity often feels un-relatable, esoteric, or just downright goofy and strange. Why does the Trinity matter? Is it mere theological jargon for academics and religious? Does Trinitarian theology actually have a practical impact on our lives and walks of faith?

This episode's guest, Wm. Paul Young, is an author who has used story to help make the mystery and beauty of the Trinity accessible to millions around the world. Paul is the author of the novel The Shack, a New York Times bestseller that has sold 25 million copies worldwide and was turned into a movie in 2017 starring Octavia Spencer, Sam Worthington, and Tim McGraw. He is also the author of Eve, Cross Roads, and Lies We Believe About God. He has a wonderful new podcast called “The Paul Young Podcast,” which features short 10-20 minute spiritual reflections 2-3 times a week. In this episode, Paul discusses our participation within the Trinity in our day-to-day lives, our living into our own inherent union with Christ, and how to distance ourselves from the lie that we are separate from God.

Consider meditating upon these Scripture passages about union with Christ: John 17, John 14:15-21, John 15:1-17, Galatians 2:20, and Colossians 1:15-20. Click here to read this episode's show notes: https://www.franciscanmedia.org/off-the-page-by-franciscan-media/

(00:00:01) Introduction

(00:02:14) Small Talk and 'The Paul Young Podcast'

(00:05:48) Paul's Journey Into Trinitarian Theology and Writing The Shack

(00:12:40) 'If God Has Ever Been Alone, Love is Not a Possibility'

(00:15:30) Reflection: Relational Thinking

(00:19:23) Invitation to Participate from Union

(00:25:12) Presence, the Eternal Now, and the Theology of Union

(00:30:07) 'Love Expands Around the Knowing'

(00:34:37) The Early Church and the Lie of Separation

(00:39:29) Reflection: Healthy Theology Leads to Healthy Anthropology

(00:44:32) Worth-ship and Worship Within the Dance

(00:50:07) The Cry of Dereliction and the Fall from a Union Perspective

(00:54:51) The Spiritual Practice of Denying Separation

(01:03:34) Reflection: Awareness of the Divine Dance We're Already In

(01:06:13) The Beauty and Relief of Union

(01:08:50) Love is the Only Way

(01:12:43) The Fire of God's Love

(01:14:18) Conclusion

We live in a concerning age. It has become commonplace to caricature, demonize, label, cheapen, and overall completely neglect the God-given humanity of a person one disagrees with. In fact, social media algorithms reward this kind of divisive behavior. TV ratings thrive on conflict and hyperbole. The better the fearmonger, the more successful the politician. Long gone seem the days of decency and civility. Thankfully, there are peacemakers in the world like this episode's guest, Chloé Simone Valdary. Chloé is a writer and entrepreneur whose company, Theory of Enchantment, teaches social and emotional learning, as well as diversity and inclusion in companies and government agencies. She has written for the New York Times, The Atlantic, and The Wall Street Journal, and she has appeared on podcasts and talkshows across the political spectrum: from "Real Time with Bill Maher" to "Honestly with Bari Weiss" to "The Jordan Peterson Podcast" to "The Megyn Kelly Show." Her three principles from the Theory of Enchantment and their alignment with Franciscan peacemaking are the focus of this episode.

Click here to read this episode's show notes: https://www.franciscanmedia.org/off-the-page-by-franciscan-media/

(00:00:01) Introduction

(00:04:19) What is Theory of Enchantment?

(00:11:44) Chloé's Spiritual Background and Worldview

(00:19:47) Enchantment, Sound, and Mysticism

(00:28:58) First Principle: Treat Others Like Human Beings, Not Political Abstractions

(00:41:11) Grace in Introspection, Journeying Inward

(00:47:25) Second Principle: Criticize Only to Uplift and Empower (Dia-Logos)

(00:56:33) Third Principle: Root Everything You Do in Love and Compassion

(01:04:09) Closing Thoughts

(01:05:51) Conclusion

Angela Alaimo O'Donnell, PhD, teaches English, Creative Writing, and courses in American Catholic Studies at Fordham University in New York City. She also serves as Associate Director of Fordham's Curran Center for American Catholic Studies. O'Donnell was awarded the New York Encounter Poetry Prize. She has been nominated for Pushcart and Best of the Web Prizes, and was a finalist for the Paraclete Poetry Prize, the Foley Poetry Prize and the Mulberry Poet's Award. O'Donnell also writes essays on and reviews of contemporary poetry and literature. She recently published her 11th poetry book Dear Dante (Paraclete Press) and writes regularly for America Magazine. Click here to read this episode's show notes.

(00:00:01) Introduction

(00:02:27) Background

(00:04:05) What is the Catholic Imagination?

(00:08:33) Bruce Springsteen and the Manifestation of the Catholic Imagination

(00:23:32) Catholic Imagination: Darkness, Beauty, and a Sacramental World

(00:34:32) Catholicism and Protestantism

(00:41:24) Poetry and the Catholic Imagination

(00:53:39) Engaging Dante's Legacy

(01:03:16) Poem: 'Dante's Smile'

(01:08:22) Mortality, Merton, and the Afterlife

(01:11:27) Poem: 'The Price of Paradise'

(01:13:40) Conclusion