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An exploration of art, money, and meaning — from Twain’s hustle to the Beatles’ breakup, Nashville bars to AI-generated songs. Mike and Doug wrestle with the paradox of creating for love versus chasing success, and what it means to keep the soul in the work

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Mike and Doug dive into Mark Twain and Beatles deep cuts, swap stories about their own songwriting, and laugh about Care Bear hats at a Darius Rucker show. The talk drifts into authenticity, slowing down creatively, and Doug’s raw reflections on health, ego, and the fear of being “phony.”

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Mike and Doug catch up after their Idaho trip and reflect on the stories we tell ourselves. Doug shares an experience in his yard where a snake encounter turned suddenly when his dog Ozzy bit it in half. The moment sparked reflection on presence, seriousness, and experiencing life as a waking dream.

They also talk about:

• Valley folk vs. mountain folk, and local identity.
• The confusion between names like Kurt and Kirk.
• How Mormon upbringing emphasized weight and meaning in everything, and how that carries into life after leaving.
• Political divisions, “wokeness,” and the challenge of extending grace across differences.
• Everyday neuroses, from airplane food smells to worries about being judged.
• Music updates, including Austin Nights and Holy Smokes.

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Mike reunites with Glenn Ostlund of Infants on Thrones to kick off a new series on the Gene Keys. They dive into Glenn’s new book You’re Not Broken, Just Rewiring, explore Gene Key 51 (Agitation → Initiative → Awakening), and share raw stories of faith, separation, creativity, and transformation.

You're Not Broken... Just Rewiring

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Doug kicks things off with a story about finally using his Real Salt Lake season tickets and having what he calls the “time of his life.” A mid-season match against Club América turns into something more than just a game—it’s a full-body experience, complete with mariachi bands, yellow smoke, and a feeling of being transported. We talk about what it means to ride the wave of communal energy and how aliveness can show up in unexpected places.

That leads into a deeper conversation around boundaries and family, especially when it comes to missions, temple culture, and the pressure to “support” things that no longer align with us. We reflect on our own mission experiences, the lasting nervous system impact, and the complicated emotions that come with watching the next generation step into systems we’ve worked hard to leave.

We also touch on:

• The difference between real joy and performative belonging
• Why curiosity matters more than certainty
• How hard it can be to draw lines without feeling like you're abandoning people
• Some music updates—we’re almost done with Austin Nights and Holy Smokes is close behind

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In this episode, we cover everything from Trump’s compulsive lying and the Mormon Church’s complicity in capitalist power structures, to Bel-Air acid trips, murder kinks in scripture, and Jesus maybe being a little gayer than we were taught. We draw parallels between culty MAGA thinking and Mormonism, laugh about being perceived as “different than we imagined,” and land in the deep mystery of belief — how none of us knows what the hell is going on, and that’s kind of the point.

There’s also a closet recording setup, some time-traveling intimacy with our listeners, and a lot of “wtf even is hydrogen?”

As always, we don’t claim to know anything for sure, but we’re here dreaming with you. Maybe if we realize we’re dreaming this together… we can dream it better.

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Mike and Doug drop in after a bit of a break to catch up on life, psychedelics, healing, and everything in between.

Doug shares what came through during the solstice while recovering from surgery—some sun, some stillness, and a feeling that didn’t quite have a name. Mike talks about spending a Saturday alone, taking acid, deep-cleaning the house, and somehow stumbling into one of the best days he’s had in a long time.

They talk about:

• The mix of emotions that don’t fit into words
• Solo rituals, breathwork, and weirdly meaningful chores
• Values they’re trying to actually live by
• The tension between letting go and showing up
• He-Man, theology, and friendship power rankings

It finally happened. After five years of teasing it, Doug’s brother Adam joins the podcast—and it's everything we hoped for and more.

We dive deep into childhood hallucinations (or were they?), the mysterious and possibly imaginary Mitch Wrangler, and the shared false memory of eating rocks on the playground. Things get even weirder as we relive our first temple experiences—from sandwich board nudity and oily rubdowns to the surreal moment of receiving our secret new names (RIP Doug → Dan).

And yeah... we’re still trying to figure out what “loud laughter” even means.

Topics Include:

• Temple names and secret oaths
• Sibling memories and shared hallucinations
• The trauma and comedy of the endowment ceremony
• Missions, guilt, and sincerity
• Cold hot dogs + bologna + peanut butter
• Our very own Backstreet Boys moment in Vegas
• The forbidden story of the Testicle Festival
• Forgetting your name at the veil