In this second part of the conversation with Rory Sutherland, Vice Chairman of Ogilvy abd behavioural science evangelist, we discuss why Rory feels we are thinking in entirely the wrong way about the payback for marketing, and the different way we need to go about finding those big, engaging ideas that will disproportionately impact the success of our business.

We talk about the false gods of quantification, how to help our team get lucky, Japanese toilets, and – obviously – the right and wrong way to think about a £300,000 rubber duck.

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Let's Make This More Interesting is a podcast from eatbigfish: the strategic consultancy that helps ambitious Challengers to grow.

Follow Adam on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adam-morgan-3a473a/

Thanks to our editor Ruth and our producer Rachael. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What is the value of surprise to us in becoming more interesting? And how does one of today's most stimulating thinkers stay so consistently surprising himself?

In Part 1 of a two part conversation, Adam sits down with Rory Sutherland - Vice Chairman of Ogilvy, behavioural science evangelist, and endlessly fascinating reframer of what we thought we knew - to talk about why surprise matters.

As he points out, sometimes the right thing to be is completely unsurprising: there will always be, after all "a market for "the drearily predictable."

But if you're trying to change behaviour - to challenge, disrupt, or eat the big fish - then surprise becomes essential.

Because the brain isn't built to notice what it expects. It's built to notice what breaks the pattern.

In this first half of the conversation, Rory explores:

• What is ‘Just the right amount of weird’?
• Why it is that we give disproportionate attention to what find surprising
• How all human perception is context-dependent, and why recontexting is so powerful
• Why the healthiest creative human activity is to try on as many frames as we can
• What it means to bring a Game Theorist’s mindset to everything we do - even the way we take holidays.

And why, in fact, surprise might be the most cost-efficient way to earn attention there is.

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Let's Make This More Interesting is a podcast from eatbigfish: the strategic consultancy that helps ambitious Challengers to grow.

Follow Adam on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adam-morgan-3a473a/

Thanks to our editor Ruth and our producer Rachael. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What does it take to make iconic work with iconic founders – when nobody out there cares about you or your product? And why might having ADHD be a gift in helping you think about how to overcome that?

In our Season 3 opener, Adam Morgan sits down with Andy Berndt, former agency leader and the founding force behind Google’s Creative Lab. Andy has worked alongside some of the most uncompromising figures in modern business — from Steve Jobs, Phil Knight and Michael Jordan to Larry Page, Sergey Brin and Sundar Pichai — and has been at the heart of some of the most celebrated and impactful creative work coming out of America in the last 30 years. As account director, copywriter and client. A unique perspective.

Andy reflects on:

• Why “nobody out there cares” can – and perhaps should – be the beginning of any great creative work.
• The particular talent that Steve Jobs and Phil Knight brought to assessing the work they were presented with
• How humour in the room is often the doorway to the breakthrough idea
• Whether clients get the creative work they deserve
• And how Google’s Creative Lab grew from small stickers to Super Bowl spots

Along the way, he explains how his ADHD became a creative advantage, why briefs are sometimes best answered with a poster instead of a presentation, and how “kids with crayons” built some of the most celebrated work of the digital era, including the now-famous “Parisian Love” film.

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Let's Make This More Interesting is a podcast from eatbigfish: the strategic consultancy that helps ambitious Challengers to grow.

Follow Adam on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adam-morgan-3a473a/

Thanks to our editor Ruth and our producer Rachael. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

If work takes up so much of our lives, and so much of work’s output is down to discretionary effort, how do we make work more engaging - as leaders of teams, and as workers ourselves?

Bruce Daisley has become a world expert on it. Previously the MD of YouTube in the UK, Bruce was the European Head of Twitter when he started exploring the meaning and future of work in a podcast, Eat Sleep Work Repeat. His first book, The Joy of Work, was a Sunday Times number one business bestseller and an FT Book of the Month. He is also the host of the hugely successful podcast ‘Eat Sleep Work Repeat’.

In this episode Adam and Bruce first discuss how to get rid of the things that suck the joy out of work, and then how to create a positive buzz in our engagement, as an individual and as a team.

They talk about:

• What the really big disruption in work has been (and it’s not wfh)
• The essential foundations for making any impact whatsoever on engagement in a culture
• The two key indicators of real engagement at work
• Why idle time is so important
• The real enemy of productivity in an organisation
• The power of Positive Affect
• The surprising importance of laughter

And why, when so much is known about how to drive up engagement at work, so little of that knowledge makes it into the leadership meetings of big organisations.

Listen to Eat Sleep Work Repeat:

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/eat-sleep-work-repeat/id1190000968

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5KUW5Lu36O4nnfIFqIIUh4

Bruce's books:

The Joy of Work: 30 Ways to Fix Your Work Culture and Fall in Love with Your Job

Fortitude: The Myth of Resilience, and the Secrets of Inner Strength

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Follow Adam on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adam-morgan-3a473a/

Let's Make This More Interesting is a podcast from eatbigfish. Thanks to our editor Ruth, our producer Travis, and to Tiny Podcasts.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We’re at an inflection point in how we engage people about the UN’s Sustainable Development Goals, Gail Gallie believes: we now need a completely new model – ‘The gloves are off’. Gail left a successful career in advertising and at the BBC to help set up Project Everyone with campaigner and film director Richard Curtis – their aim: to communicate the UN’s Sustainable Development Goals to everyone in the world in one week. 10 years later, she remains a relentless campaigner and innovator around communicating the SDGs, including the podcast she hosts with Loyiso Madinga, ‘An Idiot’s Guide to Saving The World’.

In this week's episode, Gail and Adam discuss:

• How the combination of a big ambition and a fierce time constraint drove breakthrough solutions for Project Everyone
• The new context: how the whole world has changed, and we need to move on from the old model now
• What this new model of impact campaigning should look like
• The role of surprise here, and how to get the most value from it
• Why the creative campaigning community now has to go for broke
• What it means to engage people in the conversation where they care when it comes to the SDGs, and in language they can relate to

And, in Richard Curtis’ words ‘What is the sound of hope we can make against the noise of despair?’

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Follow Adam on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adam-morgan-3a473a/

Let's Make This More Interesting is a podcast from eatbigfish. Thanks to our editor Ruth, our producer Travis, and to Tiny Podcasts.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Is TikTok the most interesting platform in the world? What’s at the heart of its success – and what does it mean to be more interesting in a post TikTok world, when the audience on TikTok is “10x bigger every day than the Super Bowl”?

In this week’s episode, Adam meets Nick Tran, former Global Head of Marketing at TikTok and advisor to a new generation of Challengers, including tech company Nothing. Nick brings his experience as a marketer, advisor and investor to discuss:

• How TikTok has changed the playing field for a new generation of brands
• How he led ‘Project Cheetah’ to reduce TikTok’s campaign development cycle from 10 weeks to a few days.
• The creativity that financial and time constraints force you to develop
• Why he always looks for win-win-win partnerships
• Learning how to create a ’must-see’ piece of creative work
• Why he believes in moving creative in-house to speed up social
• The need for a balanced diet of marketing measurement beyond KPIs and ROI

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Connect with Nick on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicholastran/

Follow Adam on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adam-morgan-3a473a/

Let's Make This More Interesting is a podcast from eatbigfish. Thanks to our editor Ruth, our producer Travis, and to Tiny Podcasts.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

For 10 years Sara Stark was part of the team helping the founders of Dishoom build their restaurant brand and business – a brand that is as rich, engaging and layered as so many other restaurants are superficial and glib.

It’s a conversation about stories, and curiosity, and inventiveness, and layering, and pushing the idea. About a continual commitment to exploring and digging and experimenting and keeping things fresh. About thinking about what it means to be different, genuinely different and engaging, in a way that seems entirely unlike the rest of the business.

If you are remotely interested in brand building, experience or culture the Dishoom story is an inspiration.

Connect with Sara on Linkedin https://www.linkedin.com/in/sara-stark-creative-marketing/

Explore the layers of the Dishoom story at https://www.dishoom.com/

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Follow Adam on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adam-morgan-3a473a/

Let's Make This More Interesting is a podcast from eatbigfish. Thanks to our editor Ruth, our producer Travis, and to Tiny Podcasts.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Warren Berger began exploring how to ask better questions through a journalistic interest in innovation. He’s come to believe the importance of questions is much broader than that, and has come on to champion the development of better questioning skills in everything from education to our personal relationships.

He has written widely on the topic, including ‘A More Beautiful Question: The power of inquiry to spark breakthrough ideas’.

In a discussion of some of his central findings and ideas we talk about:

• Why the question can be more important than the answer
• What makes a question dull or interesting
• How a good question shifts things
• The power of ‘Questionstorming’
• How a good question ‘attracts’ answers
• His three part model to asking better questions
• Why businesses should think about having Mission Questions, rather than Mission Statements

And the power for all of us in having three big questions that guide our lives.

Find out about Warren's books on his website: https://warrenberger.com/warren-bergers-books/

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Connect with Adam on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adam-morgan-3a473a/

Let's Make This More Interesting is a podcast from eatbigfish. Thanks to our editor Ruth, our producer Travis, and to Tiny Podcasts.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.