In this second part of the conversation with Rory Sutherland, Vice Chairman of Ogilvy abd behavioural science evangelist, we discuss why Rory feels we are thinking in entirely the wrong way about the payback for marketing, and the different way we need to go about finding those big, engaging ideas that will disproportionately impact the success of our business.

We talk about the false gods of quantification, how to help our team get lucky, Japanese toilets, and – obviously – the right and wrong way to think about a £300,000 rubber duck.

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Let's Make This More Interesting is a podcast from eatbigfish: the strategic consultancy that helps ambitious Challengers to grow.

Follow Adam on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adam-morgan-3a473a/

Thanks to our editor Ruth and our producer Rachael. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What is the value of surprise to us in becoming more interesting? And how does one of today's most stimulating thinkers stay so consistently surprising himself?

In Part 1 of a two part conversation, Adam sits down with Rory Sutherland - Vice Chairman of Ogilvy, behavioural science evangelist, and endlessly fascinating reframer of what we thought we knew - to talk about why surprise matters.

As he points out, sometimes the right thing to be is completely unsurprising: there will always be, after all "a market for "the drearily predictable."

But if you're trying to change behaviour - to challenge, disrupt, or eat the big fish - then surprise becomes essential.

Because the brain isn't built to notice what it expects. It's built to notice what breaks the pattern.

In this first half of the conversation, Rory explores:

• What is ‘Just the right amount of weird’?
• Why it is that we give disproportionate attention to what find surprising
• How all human perception is context-dependent, and why recontexting is so powerful
• Why the healthiest creative human activity is to try on as many frames as we can
• What it means to bring a Game Theorist’s mindset to everything we do - even the way we take holidays.

And why, in fact, surprise might be the most cost-efficient way to earn attention there is.

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Let's Make This More Interesting is a podcast from eatbigfish: the strategic consultancy that helps ambitious Challengers to grow.

Follow Adam on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adam-morgan-3a473a/

Thanks to our editor Ruth and our producer Rachael. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What does it take to make iconic work with iconic founders – when nobody out there cares about you or your product? And why might having ADHD be a gift in helping you think about how to overcome that?

In our Season 3 opener, Adam Morgan sits down with Andy Berndt, former agency leader and the founding force behind Google’s Creative Lab. Andy has worked alongside some of the most uncompromising figures in modern business — from Steve Jobs, Phil Knight and Michael Jordan to Larry Page, Sergey Brin and Sundar Pichai — and has been at the heart of some of the most celebrated and impactful creative work coming out of America in the last 30 years. As account director, copywriter and client. A unique perspective.

Andy reflects on:

• Why “nobody out there cares” can – and perhaps should – be the beginning of any great creative work.
• The particular talent that Steve Jobs and Phil Knight brought to assessing the work they were presented with
• How humour in the room is often the doorway to the breakthrough idea
• Whether clients get the creative work they deserve
• And how Google’s Creative Lab grew from small stickers to Super Bowl spots

Along the way, he explains how his ADHD became a creative advantage, why briefs are sometimes best answered with a poster instead of a presentation, and how “kids with crayons” built some of the most celebrated work of the digital era, including the now-famous “Parisian Love” film.

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Let's Make This More Interesting is a podcast from eatbigfish: the strategic consultancy that helps ambitious Challengers to grow.

Follow Adam on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adam-morgan-3a473a/

Thanks to our editor Ruth and our producer Rachael. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.