In this episode of Leadership Limbo, Josh and John continue their series on leadership presence by shifting from definition to diagnosis. After exploring what presence is, they now examine what disrupts it. Drawing from systems theory, personal leadership stories, and practical workplace examples, they unpack the subtle forces that pull leaders out of connection and into reactivity.

The core insight is simple: presence is not something you add on. It emerges when you remove what is getting in the way. Josh reintroduces the concept of de-envelopment—a term Andrew Robinson brought into conversation—challenging leaders to strip away reactive habits rather than stack new techniques. When anxiety rises in meetings, conflict, or uncertainty, leaders default into predictable postures. Some over-function, over-explain, and hustle for affirmation. Others defer too quickly, distance themselves from decisions, or avoid discomfort. Still others push agendas forcefully, mistaking control for confidence.

Throughout the episode, these patterns are connected to real leadership moments: rescuing instead of empowering, over-talking to secure credibility, withdrawing under pressure, or bulldozing conversations in the name of decisiveness. Each response is understandable, but each reduces presence and erodes trust.

The conversation also names practical barriers such as distraction, physical absence, tone, lack of preparation, and disorganization. Presence is both internal and external. It requires emotional regulation and self-awareness, but also visible engagement and structured leadership behavior.

The episode closes with practical strategies for cultivating presence in daily leadership: speaking last, limiting airtime, repairing strained relationships early, structuring meetings around learning, and embracing silence. Presence, they remind listeners, is not mystical. It is disciplined, relational, and built through consistent practice.

Presence grows when leaders remove anxiety-driven reactions rather than adding performance techniques.

Over-functioning and under-functioning are two common but opposite barriers to presence.

Agenda-driven behavior often signals insecurity more than confidence.

Distraction, tone, and lack of preparation communicate disengagement quickly.

Presence requires emotional regulation and visible leadership discipline.

This week, identify your default anxiety response. Do you over-explain, defer too quickly, push harder, or withdraw? Choose one strategy from this episode to counter it. Speak last in your next meeting. Limit your airtime. Repair a strained relationship early. Shift a goal from execution to learning. Presence grows when you intentionally remove what blocks it.

00:00 – Recap: What Is Presence? Revisiting the foundation before examining what disrupts it.

05:30 – Reintroducing De-Envelopment Stripping away anxiety-driven reactions instead of layering on new techniques.

12:00 – Over-Functioning and Hustling for Worth How over-explaining and rescuing undermine presence.

19:30 – Distancing and Avoiding Discomfort The subtle cost of under-functioning and chronic deference.

27:00 – Agenda-Driven Leadership When control replaces collaboration.

34:30 – Practical Strategies to Strengthen Presence Speaking last, limiting airtime, repairing early, and prioritizing learning.

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Growing Yourself Up by Jenny Brown Bowen Family Systems Theory Multipliers by Liz Wiseman David Whyte essays "Time" The PIQ Perspective – josh482.substack.com

In this episode of Leadership Limbo, Josh and John explore one of the most essential yet misunderstood leadership capacities: presence. Moving beyond the idea of executive polish or charisma, they reframe presence as the ability to create safety, clarity, and forward movement simply by how a leader shows up with others.

The conversation builds on recent discussions about influence, self-preservation, and development, grounding the idea of presence in lived experience rather than theory. Josh introduces a powerful reflection from poet and philosopher David Whyte, connecting presence to gravity and mass—the idea that true presence slows time, opens possibility, and invites others toward deeper engagement rather than resistance.

John and Josh unpack how presence shows up in everyday leadership moments: listening without rushing to respond, resisting the urge to fix or dominate, and creating space for others to step forward at their own pace. Through a personal story about parenting and coaching, John illustrates how walls of self-preservation—fear, ego, and the need to prove something—can block presence, and how removing those walls creates growth and confidence.

The episode also clarifies what presence is not. It is not positional authority, charisma without care, physical proximity without intention, or oversharing personal struggle in ways that burden others. Presence is not paralysis or endless collaboration, nor is it speed for the sake of productivity. Instead, presence is grounded, curious, and disciplined. It allows leaders to listen deeply, make decisions confidently, and move teams forward together.

The conversation closes by emphasizing that presence is not a switch you flip, but a continual internal practice. In a culture that rewards constant motion and urgency, choosing presence is countercultural work. Leaders who cultivate it slow time for others, reduce unnecessary friction, and create the conditions for trust, development, and meaningful progress.

00:00 – Welcome and Framing the Conversation Josh and John set the stage for a deeper exploration of leadership presence and why it matters now.

03:15 – Influence, Self-Preservation, and a Personal Leadership Story A reflection on walls of self-preservation and how fear and ego show up in leadership and parenting.

09:45 – Defining Presence and Why It Changes Everything Introducing presence as gravity that slows time and invites others toward growth.

13:30 – Presence, Time, and the Work of Deep Listening Exploring how presence creates flow, reduces tension, and accelerates real progress.

18:45 – What Presence Is Not Clarifying common misconceptions around charisma, authority, visibility, and oversharing.

32:00 – Presence in Meetings, Decisions, and Daily Leadership Why meetings, priorities, and one-to-ones either create presence or quietly destroy it.

44:00 – Reflection and Homework Practical guidance for becoming more present with priorities or people this week.

This week, identify one place where your presence matters most right now. It may be a key priority that needs focused attention, or a person who needs deeper listening and understanding. Choose one and be deliberate. Slow yourself down. Ask better questions. Notice whether time feels different—whether tension eases, clarity increases, or progress accelerates. That shift is your signal that presence is taking root.

David Whyte, Time and Consolations David Brooks, How to Know a Person Leadership Limbo frameworks on presence, influence, and developing others

In this episode of Leadership Limbo, hosts Josh Hugo and John Clark engage with Andrew Robinson, a leader in organizational development, to explore the limitations of traditional management practices and the need for a shift towards a development mindset. Andrew discusses his new venture, Oxygen, which aims to create sustainable leadership development systems that empower individuals and organizations to thrive. The conversation delves into the etymology of management, the impact of AI on leadership, and practical steps leaders can take to foster growth and presence within their teams.

Read more about Andrew's work at www.andrewfrobinson.com and read his work at https://andrewfrobinson.substack.com/ and be sure to follow his exciting new venture, Oxygen!

00:00 Introduction to Leadership Limbo 03:17 Introducing Andrew Robinson and His Work 04:50 The Launch of Oxygen: A New Approach to Leadership Development 08:24 Challenging the Management Mindset 19:15 The Etymology of Management and Its Implications 29:05 The Intersection of AI and Human Development 30:17 Practical Applications of Oxygen's Approach 34:31 Questions for Leaders to Reflect On 39:11 Final Thoughts and Reflections

leadership, management, development, organizational growth, self-awareness, presence, human potential, leadership mindset, Oxygen, Andrew Robinson