In this episode of Leadership Limbo, Josh and John dive deeper into their ongoing series on developing others, introducing a practical and powerful framework known as the Development Square from The Voice-Driven Leader by Jeremie Kubicek and Steve Cockram.

Building on last week’s conversation about mindset (“To Me” vs. “By Me”), this episode explores how leaders can translate self-awareness into actionable systems for developing people. The duo walk through the four stages of development—Foundation, Immersion, Empowerment, and Multiplication—and unpack how each represents a distinct phase of learning and growth.

Josh explains how the model builds on Maslow’s hierarchy of competence (from unconscious incompetence to unconscious competence) and helps leaders identify where each team member is on their learning journey. Together, they emphasize that development is not an event—it’s a continual process of awareness, feedback, and adaptation.

They also highlight the emotional side of development: the “pit of despair” when confidence collapses, and the “green room” where skill mastery can become comfort or complacency. Through humor, stories, and practical examples—from new teachers to medical dramas—Josh and John make the case that great leaders must not only recognize these stages but actively guide others through them.

1. Development isn’t management—and it isn’t an event. True growth is woven into daily leadership, not reserved for workshops or annual reviews.

2. Everyone learns differently. What worked for you may not work for them. Development requires empathy, flexibility, and intentionality.

3. The Four Stages of Development:

   • Foundation (Unconscious Incompetence): “I do, you watch.” Excitement is high, competence is low.

   • Immersion (Conscious Incompetence): “I do, you help.” Mistakes rise, confidence dips—learning begins.

   • Empowerment (Conscious Competence): “You do, I help.” Skill is growing, autonomy increases.

   • Multiplication (Unconscious Competence): “You do, I watch.” Mastery emerges—and it’s time to develop others.

4. Beware the “pit of despair.” When confidence collapses, leaders must support—not rescue—those they lead.

5. Don’t get stuck in the “green room.” Competence can lead to complacency; stretch high performers by challenging them to multiply others.

6. Your mindset still drives your method. Even with a strong framework, self-preservation and ego can derail development. Stay other-oriented.

Think about one person you’re developing right now—a colleague, direct report, or team member.

• Identify which stage of development they’re currently in: Foundation, Immersion, Empowerment, or Multiplication.

• Ask yourself: What do they need from me at this stage?

  • More modeling and demonstration?

  • Shoulder-to-shoulder feedback?

  • Space to practice with support?

  • Stretch opportunities to mentor others?

• Bonus reflection: Where are you in your own development journey—and what kind of support would help you grow next?

• The Voice-Driven Leader — Jeremie Kubicek & Steve Cockram

• The 100X Leader — Jeremie Kubicek & Steve Cockram

• The Drama Triangle — Dr. Stephen Karpman

• Sacred Hoops — Phil Jackson (with Hugh Delehanty)

• Conscious Leadership: The 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership — Jim Dethmer, Diana Chapman, & Kaley Warner Klemp

• The Pit (TV Series) — referenced as an analogy for teaching and skill progression

In this episode of Leadership Limbo, Josh and John continue their mini-series on developing others, widening the lens to explore the deeper mindsets that shape how leaders respond to challenges. Drawing from the model in Conscious Leadership, they unpack the four mindsets—To Me, By Me, Through Me, and As Me—and examine how each one influences the way we navigate difficulty, communicate, and develop the people around us.

The conversation explores how easy it is for leaders to slip into a reactive To Me posture, especially in seasons of uncertainty or self-preservation. From there, they highlight how shifting toward By Me opens the door to agency, responsibility, and creativity—breaking the cycle of blame or helplessness.

Josh and John also reflect on higher levels of leadership consciousness—operating Through Me or As Me—and what it means to move from control to presence, from tension to groundedness, and from reactivity to intentionality. They share personal stories, real-life examples, and moments of self-awareness that reveal the subtle but powerful nature of mindset shifts.

The episode ultimately reminds leaders that developing others begins with developing ourselves. How we interpret our circumstances shapes how we show up, how we listen, and how we build capacity in the people we influence.

1. Most leaders operate in “To Me” more than they realize. This reactive mindset amplifies stress and reduces agency, setting the tone for how we lead and develop others.

2. Shifting to “By Me” unlocks creativity and ownership. The combination of responsibility, curiosity, and intentional choice breaks the Drama Triangle and restores empowerment.

3. “Through Me” and “As Me” represent deeper, grounded presence. These states help leaders move from controlling outcomes to participating in them with clarity and calm.

4. Self-preservation keeps leaders from developing others. When fear, fatigue, or insecurity take over, development gets replaced by protection, avoidance, or withdrawal.

5. Small, consistent reframes create meaningful change. Leaders don’t need enlightenment—they need awareness in the moment and a willingness to take the next small step.

Identify one challenge you’re facing right now—something that feels heavy, unfair, frustrating, or stuck.

• Write down the story you are currently telling yourself about it (the “To Me” version).

• Then choose one small shift toward a “By Me” mindset.

  • What question could you ask?

  • What action is within your control?

  • What perspective could open up agency instead of helplessness?

Keep it small. Keep it honest. Keep it doable.

• Conscious Leadership: The 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership — Jim Dethmer, Diana Chapman, Kaley Warner Klemp

• The Drama Triangle — Dr. Stephen Karpman

• The 100X Leader — Jeremie Kubicek & Steve Cockram

• Sacred Hoops — Phil Jackson (with Hugh Delehanty)

• What About Bob? — Frank Oz (Director)

In this episode of Leadership Limbo, Josh and John kick off a new mini-series on one of the most essential—and misunderstood—skills of leadership: developing others. Building on their recent conversations about communication and self-awareness, they explore how our intentions to help can sometimes derail growth when we lead from the wrong mindset.

Drawing from the Drama Triangle framework, they unpack three common leadership archetypes that show up under stress: the Persecutor (Villain), the Rescuer (Hero), and the Victim. Each has good intentions but can end up disempowering others, creating dependency, or spreading frustration. Through stories, humor, and reflection, they reveal what’s really happening beneath these patterns and how to shift toward healthier, growth-oriented postures:

• The Challenger (instead of the Persecutor)

• The Coach (instead of the Rescuer)

• The Creator (instead of the Victim)

The episode reframes development as the act of fighting for others’ highest good. It challenges leaders to move from control to empowerment, from rescuing to equipping, and from “woe is me” to “what can we create together?”

1. Awareness is the first act of development. Every leader can slip into the Drama Triangle. The goal isn’t perfection—it’s noticing when it happens and choosing a better response.

2. Persecutors become Challengers. Replace micromanagement and blame with curiosity and accountability. Challenge others to own their growth.

3. Rescuers become Coaches. Stop over-helping. Use questions and patience to guide others toward their own solutions instead of fixing for them.

4. Victims become Creators. Trade helplessness for agency. Acknowledge the challenge, then focus on what’s within your power to move forward.

5. Leadership development is love in action. Great leaders don’t remove struggle—they walk with others through it, building confidence and autonomy along the way.

Reflect on one person you currently lead, coach, or collaborate with.

• Which of the three Drama Triangle tendencies (Persecutor, Rescuer, Victim) do you most often fall into with them?

• What would it look like to flip that pattern this week—by becoming a Challenger, Coach, or Creator instead?

• Notice how that shift changes both your mindset and their engagement.

If you’re not managing people right now, try this reflection with a teammate, family member, or friend. The same dynamics apply everywhere we influence others.

• The Drama Triangle (Stephen Karpman) – the foundational model discussed in this episode.

• Radical Candor by Kim Scott – on the balance between care and challenge (“ruinous empathy” connects to the Rescuer pattern).

• A Failure of Nerve by Edwin H. Friedman – referenced by Josh for its insight on leadership courage and the “non-anxious presence.”

• The 100X Leader by Jeremie Kubicek & Steve Cockram – for the “Sherpa mindset” of fighting for the highest good of others.