For over four decades, Paul Cavaco has been fashion's invisible hand, the editor who shapes the iconic images we see but rarely thinks about who made them possible. In this episode, Jill sits down with Paul to talk about his work at Harper's Bazaar, Vogue, and Allure, and what it takes to create images that actually mean something. He shares stories about collaborating with photographers like Richard Avedon, Steven Meisel, Annie Leibovitz, and Bruce Weber, and explains the chemistry between editors and photographers that turns a photo shoot into something memorable. Paul also talks about the difference between style and trends, his path from the Bronx to the center of American fashion, and how the industry has changed over the years.

If you're into these conversations, rate, review, and subscribe to keep them going!

Follow on Instagram and Threads at @goingrogue.podcast and @jilldemling
Follow on Bluesky
Follow on TikTok
Send us your questions or comments by calling us at 518-21-ROGUE

Going Rogue is produced by Jill Demling and Maddie Kelly, who also serves as our social media director. Matty Rosenberg is the executive producer Be sure to follow Going Rogue on your favorite podcast platform.
Going Rogue is part of the Radio Free Rhinecliff media network.

Note: This re-released episode from June 2025 features Tonne Goodman, longtime fashion director at American Vogue who styled over 200 covers, most with Jill. Tonne witnessed fashion's seismic shift from photographer-first covers to celebrity-driven ones, working under Liz Tilberis at Harper's Bazaar and Anna Wintour at Vogue. This episode returns now because next week's guest, Paul Cavaco, shares a deeply intertwined career with Tonne. They were co-fashion directors at Bazaar before Tonne took over when Paul left for Allure. Like her signature uniform of white jeans, loafers, and a silk scarf, Tonne's work has always been about clarity over noise.

Tonne shares her path from art school and early modeling to working with Calvin Klein before joining American Vogue, where she was mentored by the legendary Diana Vreeland. She recounts behind-the-scenes stories from high-profile celebrity shoots featuring stars like Angelina Jolie, Charlize Theron, and Britney Spears, and discusses her collaborations with top photographers including Mario Testino, Steven Meisel, Herb Ritts, and Annie Leibovitz. As they explore her career, Tonne emphasizes the collaborative spirit essential to successful fashion shoots and her diplomatic approach to managing complex productions. Drawing from her own experience as a former model, she reveals her fierce commitment to advocating for and protecting the talent she works with.

Follow on Instagram and Threads at @goingrogue.podcast and @jilldemling
Follow on Bluesky
Follow on TikTok
Send us your questions or comments by calling us at 518-21-ROGUE

Jill chats with Francelle Daly, a renowned New Orleans-born makeup artist whose journey to the top was fueled by pure hustle and determination. Beginning her career at the Saks makeup counter, Francelle quickly scaled the ranks, working on sets with legendary photographers like Annie Leibovitz and Craig McDean. Francelle shares the story of her unconventional path, her resilience in the face of industry challenges, and her experiences working on high-stakes projects like a celebrity cruise campaign during the pandemic. Francelle also delves into her collaboration with iconic figures such as Grace Coddington and Phyllis Posnick, and the creative freedom she experiences working with independent magazines. She talks about the inception and philosophy behind her brand, Lovecraft Beauty, a venture that aims to build a creative community. Francelle shares lessons on perseverance, innovation, and the power of following one's passion.

Follow on Instagram and Threads at @goingrogue.podcast and @jilldemling
Follow on Bluesky
Follow on TikTok
Send us your questions or comments by calling us at 518-21-ROGUE

Going Rogue is produced by Jill Demling and Maddie Kelly, who also serves as our social media director. Matty Rosenberg is the executive producer Be sure to follow Going Rogue on your favorite podcast platform.
Going Rogue is part of the Radio Free Rhinecliff media network.