Funding is the fuel that powers the franchise engine. Yet, for many new business owners, securing capital feels like a black box. In this episode, host Sean McKay sits down with Shay Kleinschmidt, the Vice President of Lending at FranFund. Shay shares her journey from a legal background to becoming a leading voice in franchise finance.

They discuss the realities of SBA lending, why your local bank might be the wrong place to go, and the critical importance of vetting a brand before you sign. Whether you are a first-time franchisee or a franchisor looking to understand the lender's perspective, Shay offers practical, no-nonsense advice.

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1. The "Craigslist" Origin Story: How Shay pivoted from the legal field to franchise lending through an unexpected job posting.
2. The 4 Buckets of SBA Approval: It is not just about a credit score. Learn about equity injection (10-30%), post-close liquidity, collateral, and the hidden "fifth bucket" - character.
3. Why Local Banks Often Fail Franchisees: Shay explains why walking into your local branch can lead to wasted time and why specialized lenders are crucial for startup franchises.
4. The Dangers of Rapid Growth: A warning for emerging brands. Selling units too fast without strong unit economics can damage your reputation with lenders.
5. Due Diligence is Non-Negotiable: Why you must read the FDD and, more importantly, call existing franchisees to ask the tough questions about cash flow and support.

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Shay’s entry into the industry wasn't traditional. In 2012, after layoffs in the legal recruiting sector, she found a Craigslist listing for FranFund. She landed the job, bought "SBA Lending for Dummies," and learned the ropes from the ground up. Today, she manages the entire lending department and executive initiatives.

There is a misconception that SBA loans are risk-free for banks. Shay clarifies that the SBA only offers a guarantee (essentially an insurance policy). The bank still assumes risk and must comply with strict rules. If a borrower defaults, the bank incurs a loss. This is why they require collateral and "skin in the game" from the borrower.

While financials are black and white, lending is still a human business. Shay emphasizes that banks do not have to lend to you. How you present yourself, your organization, and your responsiveness matter. A borrower with messy paperwork or a difficult attitude can derail a deal, even with strong financials.

Shay recounts a story in which a prominent lender abruptly exited the franchise space, leaving many deals in limbo. This highlights the importance of not putting all your eggs in one basket. Both franchisees and franchisors need a diversified network of financial partners to avoid disruption.

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Host Sean McKay brings on long-awaited guest Evan M. Goldman for a candid look at how franchise law really works behind the scenes. Evan talks about walking away from “great money” in a tedious finance job, stumbling onto a franchise law posting on a job website, and spending the last 13 years focused every day on franchise law.

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As a founding partner at The Franchise Firm LLP, Evan explains why he left large firms with massive cost structures to build a smaller practice that better reflects how franchisors and entrepreneurs actually operate. He walks through his work as outside counsel on dispute resolution, his preference for mediation, and why most of his cases settle before anyone steps into court or arbitration.

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Sean and Evan also get specific on startup franchise costs, flat-fee project work instead of hourly billing, and how state registrations in states like New York and Washington can affect timelines for emerging brands.

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👤 Guest Bio

Evan M. Goldman is a founding partner at The Franchise Firm LLP, where he focuses on franchise law and commercial litigation. He has spent more than a decade working with franchisors and franchisees, drafting and registering FDDs, handling state registrations, and serving as outside counsel on disputes nationwide. Evan represents franchisors in mediation, litigation, and arbitration, with a strong emphasis on resolving disputes before they escalate into lengthy, costly court or arbitration proceedings. He also continues to review FDDs for prospective franchisees, keeping him close to both sides of the franchise relationship.

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📌 What We Cover

• How Evan went from sport management and a plan to be a sports agent to discovering franchise law through a job posting on Monster or CareerBuilder
• Leaving a “boring as hell” finance company job with significant money to do more interesting work, even if it meant a temporary pay cut
• Building experience across multiple firms, then launching The Franchise Firm to operate in the entrepreneurial bucket alongside franchisor clients.
• Why large firm cost structures and huge offices do not match a Zoom world, or the realities of supporting small and emerging franchisors
• The role of outside dispute counsel for firms that draft FDDs and registration,s while Evan focuses on mediation and dispute resolution nationwide
• Mediation versus litigation and arbitration, including why more than 90 percent of Evan’s mediations settle and how pre-suit mediation can keep Item 3 of the FDD clean
• A practical breakdown of startup franchisor costs, including legal fees in the 18 to 25 thousand range, consultants, operations manuals, audits, and the need for real marketing dollars
• How project-based flat fees help franchisors budget their year, remove the fear of hourly billing, and let Evan treat work like a full season where good and bad luck average out
• Why New York and Washington often take the longest for state registrati,on and how New York’s inbound and outbound structure adds volume for understaffed regulators
• Cautious franchise marketing requires disclaimers, and short-term sales promises can turn into long-term misrepresentation claims and angry franchisees.ees
• Evan’s rule of thumb on when franchisors should actually sue a franchisee, including trademark issues, holdover operators, and non-compete...

Lighting money on fire with franchise leads that never get a call is a huge miss. On Franchise This, the show where we talk all about franchising, Sean McKay and producer Joseph Lewin are super excited about the qualification piece and what winning actually looks like when you bring in paid media to generate franchise leads.

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They walk through hundreds of leads that never get called, negative brand reputation, and why speed to lead within a few minutes, under five minutes, with a personal phone call or text message has to be the number one thing. They dig into verified phone numbers and email addresses, one-time passwords, liquid capital requirements, SBA loans, and long-term nurture when someone is not ready.

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They talk about hiring a sales rep with experience in the franchise world, a phone setter, a trained franchise sales expert, mutual vetting with the franchisor and another franchisee, nervous first-time buyers, the cowboy person with a hundred franchises, and a sales cycle that might be a month, three months, a year, or even 16 months.

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• Lighting money on fire with thousands of dollars in advertising, hundreds of leads, and not calling a single one
• Why people who fill out a form are waiting, the game of Chase, and why speed to lead under five minutes with a personal phone call or text message is the number one thing
• Verifying the phone number and email address with a one time password so you know with certainty that the person filled out the form
• Confirming liquid capital, SBA loans, required liquid capital amounts, and using the form to filter out people who are not ready right away
• Questions in the form about how soon they want to open, confirming if they are a US citizen, and interest in talking to a franchise consultant
• Negative brand reputation when you never call back, and why a YouTube video of you lighting money on fire might actually do better
• Hiring a sales rep with experience in the franchise world instead of the franchisor doing the calls and making the business look really small
• The phone setter, the trained franchise sales expert, mutual vetting with the franchisor and another franchisee, in person meetings, signatures, loans, and a smooth, well defined process from start to finish

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• Sean McKay
• Joseph Lewin
• SBA loans
• Franchise consultant

Common questions from franchisees and franchise owners keep coming up around franchising as complicated, getting this stuff off the ground, and how to find franchisees. Host Sean McKay welcomes producer Joseph Lewin for something a little different on Franchise This, a show about franchising, and turns the focus to the questions they hear all the time.

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Joseph shares how franchise owners are trying to figure out all kinds of different stuff while they work to get things off the ground and look for franchisees. Together, Sean and Joseph highlight learnings picked up along the way from the show and start to explore what franchise owners should do before they engage an agency. The conversation centers on the real tension franchise owners feel as they balance the complexity of franchising with the pressure to grow.

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• Common questions that come up from franchisees and franchise owners
• Why franchising is complicated and how that shows up for franchise owners
• What goes into getting this stuff off the ground for a franchise
• The pressure on franchise owners who need to find franchisees
• How questions from franchise owners shape learnings picked up along the way from the show
• The early conversation around what franchise owners should do before they engage an agency

Engaging with an agency can be a scary proposition because you are immediately incurring monthly cost, so you want to be ready. On Franchise This, Sean McKay and producer Joseph Lewin do a little something different today and go over common questions from franchisees and franchise owners and some of the learnings that they picked up along the way from the show. They talk about how to validate that your business is even franchisable with more than one corporate location, a test somewhere else, standard operating procedures, and a well documented plan and procedure for everything in the business. They talk about the legal side with your FDD, franchise landing page and collateral for advertising, and why you should exhaust your network first with customers, friends, family, vendors, and people you know in the business before you go out and pay for leads. They say how even one franchise location can be a validated concept and a testimonial with good revenue numbers and AUV, like a cheesesteak place with about 4 million dollars in average annual revenue that makes people excited, and they bring in sales, concepts people are less interested in, the cyclical nature of what is in fashion or interesting to potential candidates, and serious franchise owners generating leads with a fresh FDD in hand and a strategic conversation and consultation to talk about what it would look like when you are ready.

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• Engaging with an agency, monthly cost, and why hiring an agency too soon is not a good thing for anybody.
• Validating that your business is even franchisable with more than one corporate location, a test somewhere else, and standard operating procedures and a well documented plan and procedure for everything in the business.
• The legal side with your FDD, franchise landing page, collateral for advertising, and going to market more quickly.
• Why you should exhaust your network first with customers, friends, family, vendors, and people you know in the business before you go out and pay for leads, and how one or two franchise locations can make advertising and generating leads easier.
• Using one franchise location as a validated concept and testimonial with average annual revenue, AUV, and a 4 million dollar cheesesteak place example that makes people excited.
• Warm and cold sales, problems in your business model, concepts people are less interested in, the cyclical nature of what is in fashion or interesting to potential candidates month by month and year by year, and finding that out beforehand.
• When to reach out to an agency like ours, serious about generating leads, brands at a very early stage directly out of the lawyer’s office with fresh FDD in hand, and using a strategic conversation and consultation to talk about what it would look like when you are ready.

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• Franchise This
• Sean McKay
• Joseph Lewin
• Franchise consultant Kelly
• FDD
• Franchise landing page and collateral

Scrappy from day one, Sean McKay sits down with Richard Gould, the franchisor behind Richard’s Painting, to talk about real choices and real consequences. Richard did not graduate high school, learned painting under Don, bought the business in his twenties, then sold it, moved from the Princeton area to Salisbury, North Carolina, and started over without knowing anyone. He grew a small-town operation past a million dollars a year, opened a second location to prove the model worked without him, and then franchised. You will hear how $5,000 down ads on BizBuySell brought in early franchisees, why better qualified candidates matter, why a slow and steady path beats quick territory counts, and how a group coaching program with Dan Martel and Buy Back Your Time helped Richard get out of his own way. Expect straight talk on costs, marketing, Angi’s fixed monthly program, and why a painting company that actually paints can still scale.

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Richard Gould is the franchisor of Richard’s Painting. He started as a young painter working alongside Don, purchased the business in his twenties, and later moved from the Princeton area to Salisbury, North Carolina, where he rebuilt from scratch. After growing past a million dollars a year locally, he opened a second location to prove the system, then began franchising. Richard describes himself as scrappy and committed to helping people with no business experience learn how to run a business using painting as the platform.

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• Starting over in Salisbury, North Carolina, and taking three to four years to become successful
• Opening a second location to see if the business works without the founder
• Selling early franchises from $5,000 down BizBuySell ads and what happened next
• The reality of franchising costs, why “a million dollars to franchise” gets said, and doing it for far less
• Painting company versus sales organization, and why learning the craft still matters
• Why hands-off franchises do not really exist and how effort maps to return
• Using Facebook, Google, and Angi’s fixed monthly program to drive leads, especially in larger markets
• Working with brokers and consultants, qualifying candidates, and protecting people who put their life savings on the line

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• Richard’s Painting website: http://www.richardspainting.net
• Richard Gould on LinkedIn
• Sean McKay
• Dan Martel and Buy Back Your Time
• Monster Tree Service
• Franchise Marketing Systems (Chris Connor)
• BizBuySell
• Go Burrito
• Angi
• TikTok and Instagram: Richard underscore the Painter

Sean McKay steps behind the mic for a solo reflection on what he’s learned from the first stretch of Franchise This. He answers real questions about what franchisors need, where marketing dollars go wrong, and how data, automation, and brand storytelling connect to long-term success.

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Sean explains what “hanging the digital open sign” really looks like, how brands lose momentum by giving up too soon, and why consistent messaging matters as much as ad spend. He breaks down what worked with brands like Cookies & Cream, Bubba Co’s, and Marigold Academy, and where campaigns like LinkedIn advertising fell short.

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From local grand-opening playbooks to data-enriched lead qualification, Sean lays out how to build smarter franchise marketing systems that support franchisees and keep growth sustainable.

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• What franchise marketing looks like behind the scenes at Site Hub
• The biggest mistakes franchisors make when scaling and spending
• Why brand marketing and messaging still matter in the AI era
• Lessons from Cookies & Cream, Bubba Co’s, and Marigold Academy
• Where LinkedIn ads failed and why persistence and tracking matter
• How to support new franchisees with “digital open signs” and local awareness campaigns
• Using data enrichment and automation to score and qualify leads
• What’s working in lead generation now and why quality beats quantity
• Balancing corporate and local marketing so franchisees win

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• Site Hub
• Franchise This episode with Greg at the Peach Cobbler Factory
• Franchise This episode with Tim Doherty

In this episode of Franchise This, host Sean McKay talks with Kelly Amshoff, a multi-hyphenate entrepreneur and franchise consultant who helps aspiring owners find their perfect business match. From musical theater to fitness to franchise development, Kelly’s journey reflects the power of pivoting with purpose.

She shares what really goes into identifying the right franchise — beyond flashy brands or food chains — and how she guides clients to make confident, informed decisions. Listeners will walk away with insights on funding, candidate red flags, and why franchising isn’t just about buying a business — it’s about building your future.

👤 Guest Bio

Kelly Amshoff is a seasoned franchise consultant with FranChoice, helping individuals discover franchise opportunities aligned with their goals, values, and financial readiness.

With a background spanning musical theater, fitness entrepreneurship, and franchise development, Kelly brings a unique blend of creativity, empathy, and business acumen. She also runs I’m With Kelly Franchising, a resource for entrepreneurs exploring franchise ownership.

Connect with Kelly on LinkedIn.

📌 What We Cover

• Kelly’s unexpected path from theater and fitness to franchising
• The real difference between a franchise consultant and a salesperson
• Common misconceptions about buying a franchise
• Why franchising isn’t just for the ultra-wealthy
• The importance of funding strategy and readiness
• Red flags when evaluating franchise opportunities
• How franchisors and franchisees both “win” in the right match
• Kelly’s “Who, What, Where, When, and Why” approach to guiding clients
• Mythbusting: passive income, experience requirements, and franchise costs
• Emerging franchise trends — from “dirty jobs” to AI-enabled brands

🔗 Resources Mentioned

FranChoice.com — Kelly’s consulting network

I’m With Kelly Franchising — Kelly’s personal site

Site Hub — Sean’s digital agency and producer of Franchise This

Book: The E-Myth Revisited by Michael Gerber