What if humor isn’t just a personality trait—but a survival strategy?

Kate Bowler sits down with writer Jenny Lawson and entertaining YouTuber Rhett McLaughlin to talk about the strange, often dark roots of comedy. From childhood anxiety and taxidermy-filled homes to lifelong creative friendships and faith that evolves, they explore how silliness, honesty, and absurdity help us live with what hurts. This is a conversation about being “too much,” laughing at what’s not funny, and finding connection in the weirdest parts of being human.

SHOW NOTES

• Tour dates & tickets: katebowler.com/joyfulanyway

• Watch the live conversation on YouTube

• Let’s Pretend This Never Happened — Jenny Lawson

• Furiously Happy — Jenny Lawson

• Broken (in the Best Possible Way) — Jenny Lawson

• How to Be Okay (When You’re Not Okay) — Jenny Lawson

• Rhett & Link / Mythical Entertainment

• Good Mythical Morning

• James and the Shame (Rhett McLaughlin’s music project)

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On the day her new book Joyful Anyway releases, Kate pauses before the interviews and travel to reflect on a harder question: what does it mean to talk about joy in a world that feels fractured, exhausting, and uncertain? In this short, personal episode, she pushes back on the pressure to optimize our way into happiness and instead explores a stranger, sturdier kind of joy—one that shows up alongside grief, ordinary stress, and lives that don’t quite match the ones we imagined. With a reading from the book and a few honest reflections, this is an invitation to consider what might be better than happiness—and how joy might still find us anyway.

SHOW NOTES

• Joyful, Anyway by Kate Bowler — Available everywhere books are sold.

• Tour dates & tickets: katebowler.com/joyfulanyway

• Watch on YouTube

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As Holy Week arrives, Kate talks with theologian, poet, and former Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams about joy that doesn’t erase sorrow. Together they explore longing, grief, music, gratitude, hope, and the strange, defiant way joy can sit right beside pain without denying what’s true.

SHOW NOTES

• George Herbert, “The Pulley”

• Nick Cave

• Hannah Coulter by Wendell Berry

• Tour dates & tickets: katebowler.com/joyfulanyway

• Watch the live conversation on YouTube

• Join Kate Bowler on Substack for the season of Lent: katebowler.substack.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.