In this episode of Counsel to Counsel, Steve Seckler speaks with attorney, entrepreneur, and legal business strategist Daya Naef, founder of The Success Partner, about how law firms can navigate the generational handoff in leadership. As founding partners prepare to step back, younger attorneys are stepping up—bringing fresh perspectives on technology, especially AI, and new expectations for work-life balance, flexibility, and firm culture.

Steve and Daya explore

• The tensions and opportunities between senior and next-generation lawyers
• Succession planning strategies that work (and those that don’t)
• Practical ways to start small with AI adoption in law firms
• How to foster collaboration across generations without alienating either side
• What younger attorneys value most in today’s legal workplace
• The evolving role of the billable hour and alternative billing models

Daya also shares her vision for the law firm of 2030—one that is AI-enabled, flexible, and driven by a clear strategy for sustainability.

Listen now to learn how your firm can adapt, retain top talent, and thrive in a changing legal landscape.

Artificial intelligence is dramatically changing how legal services are marketed—and how clients find lawyers. In this episode, Steve Seckler speaks with Annie Stern, a seasoned digital marketing strategist, about what lawyers need to know to stay relevant in the AI era.

Key Takeaways:

• AI tools like ChatGPT are reshaping how clients discover and vet lawyers, including those who rely heavily on referrals.

• A strong digital footprint—updated bios, accurate directories, and mentions on reputable sites—is now critical for visibility.

• Traditional SEO isn’t dead but must be complemented by AI-readiness strategies.

• Annie shares the top three things every solo or small firm lawyer should do today to ensure they're discoverable by AI.

Resources & Contact:

Learn more about Annie Stern’s work at RizeUp Media or email her at annie@rizeupmedia.com.

As lawyers, we are trained to analyze, critique, and mitigate risk — all essential skills in practice. But when we bring that same mindset into our everyday conversations, we can unintentionally undermine connection and trust. In this episode, Stephen Seckler explores how the habits that make us successful advocates can backfire in networking, business development, and even personal relationships.

Stephen breaks down some of the most common communication traps lawyers fall into:

• Leading with skepticism instead of curiosity
• Listening to respond instead of truly listening to understand
• Correcting others unnecessarily
• Over-sharing your own experiences instead of showing empathy
• Over-explaining and focusing too much on procedural detail
• Turning casual conversations into debates

Whether you're trying to deepen client relationships, network more effectively, or simply communicate better with colleagues and friends, this episode offers tools to help you become a more impactful and trusted communicator.

In this solo episode, attorney Stephen Seckler reflects on the importance of building small, consistent habits—both for professional success and personal wellbeing. Drawing on his own efforts to reduce news and screen time, improve sleep hygiene, and maintain dental health, Stephen underscores how selfcare routines can create calm and clarity in stressful times.

He also highlights how the same principle applies to business development: splashy efforts are no substitute for consistent outreach and visibility. Whether it's connecting with referral sources, posting on LinkedIn, or attending networking events, success comes from showing up regularly.

Tune in to hear why both wellness and marketing are long games—and how you can make progress one habit at a time.

Additional Resources

• Episode 139-Conquering Perfectionism in the Practice of Law with Jordana Confino
• Episode 140- Naïs Mouret on Emotional Intelligence, Physical Well-being, and the Practice of Law
• Episode 135-Tackling Mental Health Issues in the Law with Amy Levine and LCL

Many lawyers find themselves questioning whether the traditional practice of law is the right long-term fit. In this episode, host Stephen Seckler speaks with Kim Fine and Neil Handwerker, co-founders of ex judicata, a platform designed to help lawyers explore and transition to non-legal careers.

Kim Fine brings a wealth of experience as a legal industry executive, including her time as Managing Director at ALM (American Lawyer Media). Neil Handwerker is a former practicing attorney and seasoned legal recruiter who has advised lawyers on career transitions for decades. Together, they launched ex judicata to address a growing need: helping lawyers find more fulfilling career paths outside of traditional legal roles.

In This Episode:

* The origin story of ex judicata and the founders' earlier work with Fulcrum Information Services

* Common reasons lawyers want to transition out of practice: burnout, billable hour pressure, and desire for team-oriented environments

* How ex judicata supports lawyers: diagnostic tools, job boards, interview archives, and online courses

* Popular course offerings like financial fluency and data analytics, tailored to JD career pivots

* Mindset shifts and soft skills lawyers need to develop when leaving the profession

* Guidance on timing your transition, especially when you’re financially dependent on your legal job

* The importance of self-reflection, side projects, and informational interviews in career exploration

* Support for 3Ls affected by the Federal hiring freeze

* What’s next for ex judicata—including a new initiative described as “revolutionary”

Additional Resources:

• · Episode 155: From Lawyering to Legal Tech with Ben Chiriboga
• · Episode 147-Your Legal Career: If It’s Broke, Fix It or Move On?
• · Episode 142-Winning in Your Own Court with Dena Lefkowitz
• · Episode 139-Conquering Perfectionism in the Practice of Law with Jordana Confino
• · Episode 124-Lauren Rikleen on Social Justice and Defending American Democracy
• · Episode 119-From Law Firm Associate to In-House Operations-With Shawn Hoyt
• · Episode 114-From Biglaw to In-house to Business Role and Back Again with Carl Berglind
• · Episode 113-From Litigation to Trial Consulting with Marc Diller
• · Episode 112-From Corporate Counsel to Management Consultant-Leveraging Your Legal Career with David Lesser

In this special solo episode of Counsel to Counsel, I take a break from my usual interview format to share something personal: the audio version of Chapter One of my new book, Think Like a Lawyer, Act Like an Entrepreneur, just published by the American Bar Association.

This book is a field guide for lawyers who are skeptical about marketing and allergic to the idea of “sales.” It’s designed to help you shift your mindset, find a more authentic and comfortable approach to business development, and ultimately grow your practice in a way that feels right to you.

I don’t plan to release a full audiobook, but many of you have asked for one—so I’m starting here. If you've ever struggled with the idea of self-promotion or found traditional marketing advice unrelatable, this first chapter is for you.

Tune in to hear how I kick off the book, and let me know what you think!

Topics Covered:

• Why lawyers often resist marketing and business development
• How entrepreneurial thinking can help lawyers reframe their approach
• A preview of what’s to come in the book

Purchasing the book:

📘 Think Like a Lawyer, Act Like an Entrepreneur – Order from the ABA Bookstore or head to my website to find a discount code.

In this episode of Counsel to Counsel, Steve speaks with legal tech executive and former practicing attorney Ben Chiriboga, founding team member of Nexl, a legal CRM platform built specifically for law firms. Ben shares how Nexl is transforming how lawyers manage client relationships and streamline business development—and offers a candid look at his own journey from litigator to legal tech entrepreneur.

💡 In This Episode:

• What is a CRM, and why do lawyers need one?
• How Nexl helps lawyers stay on top of relationship-building without relying on manual data entry
• Nexl’s legal-specific features: passive data collection, client intelligence, and built-in project management
• Why many lawyers resist using CRMs—and how Nexl addresses those objections
• Ben’s personal transition from litigation to legal tech leadership

In this episode, Steve speaks with the administrative team at the NALP Foundation, a nonprofit research organization focused on the advancement of the legal profession. They explore recent data on associate hiring, attrition, and retention—highlighting what lawyers can learn from these trends to shape more satisfying careers.

💡 Topics Covered:

• Why lawyers are leaving law firms—and why some are choosing to stay

• The top factors driving associate retention (hint: it’s not just about money)

• What the research says about generational differences and shifting career expectations

• How to use data to be more intentional about your career development

• Advice for lawyers feeling disengaged or considering alternative paths

🎧 Whether you're early in your legal career or at a crossroads, this episode offers practical insights for anyone looking to navigate a more fulfilling professional path.