Rick and Svea unpack a challenging (“rugged”) passage from 1 Corinthians 14, focusing on orderly worship, spiritual gifts (like speaking in tongues), and a difficult line about women in the church. Rather than avoiding tension, they model how to engage it—encouraging listeners to interpret unclear passages through what’s clear, use context, and patiently wrestle toward understanding.

The conversation moves beyond the text into formation: following Jesus means honesty, not performance. They challenge “performative spirituality”—using religious language or practices to impress rather than connect—and call the church to authenticity, humility, and clarity, especially for the sake of those still exploring faith.

Ultimately, the episode centers on being a church that is clear, welcoming, and distraction-free in its worship—where everything we do helps people see Jesus, not us.

Topics discussed in this episode:

• 00:00 - Intro
• 01:25 - 1 Corinthians 14: Orderly Worship & Speaking in Tongues
• 02:29 - How to Interpret Difficult Passages
• 06:10 - Emotional Honesty When Reading the Bible
• 07:25 - Rick's Personal Bible Study Method
• 10:09 - Vulnerability & Authenticity in Church Community
• 13:47 - Performative Spirituality
• 17:47 - Personal Experiences with Charismatic Worship
• 19:47 - Order vs. Freedom in Worship
• 23:03 - Sermon Prep: Manuscript vs. Extemporaneous Preaching
• 25:02 - Clarity, Jesus, and the Purpose of Scripture
• 30:38 - Being a Good Ambassador at Easter

In this episode of Church Is Messy, Rick and Svea revisit 1 Corinthians 13 following Svea’s weekend sermon—looking beyond its reputation as a wedding passage to what Paul was actually addressing in a deeply dysfunctional church. What emerges is a clear picture of spiritual maturity shaped by love.

Svea shares how her understanding of the passage grew as she studied it, alongside a six-stage framework of spiritual growth—discovering, learning, doing, contemplating, becoming, and loving—and the experience many encounter as “the wall,” where faith can feel uncertain or stalled. Rather than signaling failure, this season may be an invitation to deeper, more lasting transformation.

The conversation also names a tension many feel: much of church culture emphasizes learning and doing, while the deeper, more inward work of formation often goes unexplored. Through practical examples like patience, Rick and Svea show the movement from something we try to practice to something that becomes part of who we are as we follow Jesus.

Topics discussed in this episode:

• 00:00 — Intro
• 01:07 — Introducing the sermon on 1 Corinthians 13.
• 01:14 — Svea's initial reaction to preaching the Love Chapter.
• 02:36 — The true context of 1 Cor. 13: love as a recipe for a dysfunctional church, not a wedding poem.
• 06:11 — What was left on the cutting room floor (tongues, knowledge ceasing, preview of Rick's next sermon).
• 08:10 — Paul's character: the tension between his perceived harshness and writing the most beautiful words about love.
• 10:41 — The opening sermon illustration: love that is imperfect but genuine vs. flawless but loveless.
• 12:53 — Introduction to the Spiritual Growth Framework.
• 12:57 — Stages 1–3: Discovering, Learning, and Doing.
• 17:41 — The Wall: what it is, what causes it, and why it's not a punishment.
• 23:41 — Stage 4: Contemplating (and why the church has an allergy to it).
• 25:16 — Stage 5: Becoming (motivation shifting from obligation to identity).
• 27:30 — Stage 6: Loving (virtue becoming instinctive, not intentional).
• 29:56 — Practical walkthrough of all six stages using patience as the example.

This episode of "Church Is Messy" unpacks the sermon Rick preached on 1 Corinthians 12 and the topic of spiritual gifts. Rick opened that message with a reflection on mortality — the "dash" between a person's birth and death date — prompting a lively discussion about whether they'd want to know their end date in advance (both say yes, though they acknowledge they're in the minority). This leads into the central theme: how an awareness of limited time should motivate intentional use of the gifts God has given each person.

Rick and Svea explore several facets of spiritual gifting: how to discover your gifts (through prayer, availability, and asking others for feedback), the pitfalls of spiritual gift surveys (which can cause people to feel exempt from responsibilities they score low in, like hospitality or evangelism), and the importance of leaning into strengths rather than fixating on weaknesses. Rick shares his own conviction that teaching God's word is his irreplaceable calling, while also emphasizing that all spiritual gifts — from encouragement to listening to generosity — can be exercised anywhere, not just in formal ministry roles.

The episode closes on a devotional note, with both hosts reflecting that a life oriented outward toward others — living as a "there you are" person rather than a "here I am" person — is not only God's design but also the source of the deepest joy. Svea teases the upcoming weekend's message (her turn to preach), which will continue into 1 Corinthians 13 on love as the ultimate motivation for using one's gifts.

Topics discussed in this episode:

• 00:00 — Intro
• 03:44 — Recap of the Sermon on 1 Corinthians 12 / Spiritual Gifts
• 04:41 — Would You Want to Know Your End Date?
• 09:10 — Rick's Personal Calling and Use of His Gifts
• 11:04 — Every Believer Is Gifted
• 14:04 — Barriers to Using Your Gifts
• 18:03 — The Downside of Spiritual Gift Surveys
• 26:38 — Living Out Your Dash with Intentionality
• 31:24 — Preview of the Upcoming Weekend

In this episode of Church Is Messy, Rick and Svea explore the second half of 1 Corinthians 11, where Paul sharply rebukes the Corinthian church for their divisive behavior during communion. Paul’s warning reveals how seriously God takes unity within the church.

Rick explains that unity is not just a goal for Christians—it reflects God’s very nature as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The problem in Corinth wasn’t personal sin before communion, but pretending to be unified while practicing division, as wealthier believers feasted while the poor went hungry.

Rick and Svea discuss what true unity looks like in practice: moving beyond tolerance to actively honoring and welcoming people across differences in age, background, culture, and life stage. They remind listeners that biblical unity in diversity is not a cultural trend but an ancient foundation of the church.

The episode closes with a picture of this unity in action through multigenerational faith communities learning from one another around the same table.

Topics discussed in this episode:

• 00:00 - Intro
• 02:32 - Introduction to 1 Corinthians 11 Passage
• 03:39 - God's Discipline and Importance of Unity
• 04:37 - The Trinity and Unity
• 07:01 - A Thought Experiment
• 08:40 - Divine Discipline vs. Condemnation
• 09:42 - Better Not to Meet - A Church Out of Whack
• 10:20 - Taking Communion in an Unworthy Manner
• 12:33 - Communion as a Meal in Small Groups
• 13:32 - Clarifying Unity in Christ vs. Loving All People
• 15:42 - The Tolerate, Celebrate, Elevate Progression
• 16:30 - Philippians 2 - The Mind of Christ
• 18:11 - Practical Application in Church Life
• 20:32 - Idealized Small Group Expectations
• 21:07 - Loneliness Epidemic
• 22:51 - Cultural Shift on Unity and Diversity
• 26:54 - Christian Foundation for Unity
• 28:12 - Beauty and Goodness of Unity
• 30:38 - Preview of Next Week

In this episode of Church Is Messy, Rick and Svea tackle one of the most notoriously difficult passages in the New Testament: 1 Corinthians 11, which discusses head coverings and gender roles. The conversation centers on how people tend to retreat into fundamentalism—grasping at simplistic, dogmatic answers—when facing uncertainty or complex biblical texts. Rick explains that this impulse appears across the theological spectrum, from those who dismiss difficult passages entirely to those who impose rigid, literalistic interpretations without acknowledging the real complexities involved.

The heart of their discussion explores why 1 Corinthians 11 is so challenging to interpret. Even top scholars disagree on fundamental questions: What does "head of" mean when Paul says God is the head of Christ, Christ is the head of man, and man is the head of woman? Does it signify authority, source, unity, or preeminence? Rick presents Lucy Peppiatt's scholarly theory as one reasonable explanation while acknowledging it cannot be definitively proven. He emphasizes that any valid interpretation must account for all the facts without contradicting itself or the rest of scripture. Svea shares her personal experience of feeling stress and anxiety when hearing this passage read, even in the healthy environment of Autumn Ridge, reflecting the real impact these texts have on women in ministry.

Ultimately, Rick and Svea encourage listeners to approach difficult scripture with confidence, curiosity, and courage rather than contempt or cynicism. They stress that it's spiritually mature to say "I don't know yet" and to trust in God's character while continuing to study and wrestle with hard passages. The main point Paul makes is clear despite all the complexity: men and women are interdependent, and all are fully dependent on God. Sometimes the most important lesson from a difficult passage isn't what it definitively says, but learning how to approach it with humility, rigorous study, and unwavering trust in God.

Topics discussed in this episode:

• 00:00 Intro
• 02:55 - Connecting Fundamentalism to the Difficult Passage
• 05:56 - Fundamentalism as a Response to Uncertainty
• 07:00 - Svea's Personal Experience as a Woman
• 08:45 - The Umbrella Imagery
• 10:35 - What Does "Head Of" Mean?
• 11:47 - John Chrysostom's Fourth Century Perspective
• 13:30 - Long Unbound Hair & Cultural Context
• 14:22 - Rick's Full Interpretation of "Headship"
• 17:02 - Jesus' Functional Subordination
• 19:27 - The Mystery of Angels in the Passage
• 19:54 - Spiritual Maturity in Uncertainty
• 21:29 - God Beyond Full Comprehension
• 22:35 - Approaching Difficult Scripture as Worship
• 23:18 - Lucy Peppiatt's Theory
• 23:56 - Evaluating Competing Interpretations
• 26:00 - Paul's Main Point: Interdependence
• 26:25 - Dealing with Personal Bias
• 28:46 - What to Remember a Year from Now
• 30:54 - Preston Sprinkle's 20-Year Wrestling
• 31:21 - Learning How to Approach Scripture
• 33:02 - Impact Story: Red Letters Only Christian
• 33:35 - Closing & Moving Forward

Rick and Svea continue their challenging journey through First Corinthians, tackling Chapter 6 which addresses conflict within the church. They explore Paul's confronting question: "Why not rather be wronged?" and discuss how the Corinthian believers were taking each other to court instead of resolving disputes within the community.

They examine three key perspectives: theological (understanding our eschatological identity in Christ), ecclesiological (recognizing we're one body and conflict hurts us all), and leadership (accepting that being misunderstood comes with the territory). They share personal vulnerabilities about their own "insecurity cards"—Rick's struggle with being misunderstood and Svea's feelings of inadequacy—and discuss how the cruciform lifestyle (self-sacrificing love modeled by Jesus on the cross) should shape how Christians handle conflict.

The conversation emphasizes that while conflict is inevitable, we're called to seek security and satisfaction in Christ alone rather than demanding affirmation from others. They explore practical applications for church life, leadership, and personal relationships, highlighting how choosing to "rather be wronged" isn't about tolerating abuse but about prioritizing others' needs and protecting confidentiality—even when it means taking the hit yourself.

Topics discussed in this episode:

• 00:00 Introduction
• 01:45 Nine Sacred Pathways & Spiritual Connection
• 04:45 Conflict in the Corinthian Church
• 06:35 Insecurity Cards Discussion
• 09:10 Self-Awareness & Growth
• 12:10 Jesus & Paul Were Misunderstood
• 13:10 Taking an Eschatological Perspective
• 15:25 Cruciform Way of Life
• 18:15 Three Lenses: Theological Perspective
• 21:25 "Why Not Rather Be Wronged?"
• 22:43 Three lenses: Ecclesiological Perspective - Body of Christ
• 25:20 Not Demanding Affirmation from Others
• 27:50 Woman at the Well - John 4
• 29:10 Representing Jesus Well
• 30:25 Three lenses: Leadership Perspective - Being Misunderstood
• 31:52 Leadership & Confidentiality
• 34:35 Practical Leadership Example
• 37:00 Decision Tree - When to Take the Hit
• 38:15 Closing Remarks

In this episode of Church Is Messy, Rick and Svea tackle one of the most uncomfortable passages in the New Testament: 1 Corinthians 5. They discuss a shocking situation in the Corinthian church where a man was sleeping with his stepmother, and the congregation was doing nothing about it.

Rick and Svea explore the tension between creating a church where people feel safe in struggling with sin while still maintaining biblical standards. They unpack what it means to address sin within the church versus judging those outside it, and why Paul's instruction to "hand this man over to Satan" was actually an act of love aimed at restoration.

The conversation covers challenging questions like: How do we balance grace and accountability? What's the difference between being judgmental and exercising discernment? And how should Christians engage with cultural issues without becoming the "morality police"?

Whether you're wrestling with how to approach sin in your own life or wondering how the church should respond to difficult situations, this episode offers a thoughtful, grace-filled perspective on navigating one of Scripture's messiest passages.

Topics discussed in this episode:

• 00:00 - Introduction & Overview of 1 Corinthians 5
• 01:14 - The Situation in Corinth
• 03:23 - Relevance to Modern Church Life
• 04:28 - Pastoral Heart & Balancing Grace with Truth
• 07:26 - "Lowered the Bar, Raised the Standard"
• 08:50 - Struggling vs. Stubbornly Entrenched in Sin
• 10:34 - "Who Rules" vs. "What Are the Rules"
• 12:55 - Addressing Sin Within vs. Outside the Church
• 14:25 - Wanting Good for Non-Believers Without Being Judgmental
• 17:03 - Judgment vs. Discernment
• 19:01 - Christians, Politics & Voting
• 20:00 - Roe v. Wade & Pro-Life Position
• 26:36 - Early Church Example: Infant Exposure in Rome
• 28:12 - Addressing Sin Among Believers
• 28:53 - "Hand This Man Over to Satan"
• 30:26 - Letting People Experience Consequences
• 31:04 - Wisdom Cannot Be Reduced to Rules
• 33:58 - "Don't Even Eat With Such People"
• 37:12 - The Agape Feast & Lord's Supper
• 40:02 - Creating a Safe Church for Struggling Believers
• 42:55 - How Church Discipline Works in Practice
• 46:53 - Preview of Next Episode

In this episode of Church Is Messy, Rick and Svea dive into Paul's letter to the Corinthians, exploring how the early church struggled with the same tribal divisions we see today. Using a clever Jelly Roll analogy, Rick illustrates how easily Christians can align themselves with personalities and influencers rather than keeping Jesus as their foundation.

The conversation tackles the tension between theological knowledge and spiritual maturity, the danger of evaluating Jesus through the lens of our preferred tribe rather than the other way around, and what it means to truly be the temple of God. Rick and Svea discuss the importance of knowing not just what we believe, but why we believe it, and how immaturity and pride can lead us to seek certainty in the wrong places.

Throughout the episode, they emphasize that while we're called to contribute to God's work, it's ultimately His presence and power that produces growth—not our performance. The discussion offers both challenge and comfort: we're all vulnerable to these patterns, but we have a solid foundation in Christ that can't be shaken.

Topics discussed in this episode:

• 00:00 Intro
• 02:10 Jelly Roll Parable and Church Polarization
• 04:45 Teaching How to Think, Not What to Think
• 06:30 Historical Perspective on Division
• 10:00 Evaluating Jesus Through Our Tribe
• 14:45 Theologically Rich but Spiritually Poor
• 19:30 Immaturity and the Craving for Certainty
• 23:00 Building on the Foundation of Christ
• 26:00 Contributing vs. Producing
• 28:15 We Are the Temple
• 32:20 What a Healthy Church Looks Like
• 37:00 Closing & Preview of Next Week