Rick and Svea unpack a challenging (“rugged”) passage from 1 Corinthians 14, focusing on orderly worship, spiritual gifts (like speaking in tongues), and a difficult line about women in the church. Rather than avoiding tension, they model how to engage it—encouraging listeners to interpret unclear passages through what’s clear, use context, and patiently wrestle toward understanding.

The conversation moves beyond the text into formation: following Jesus means honesty, not performance. They challenge “performative spirituality”—using religious language or practices to impress rather than connect—and call the church to authenticity, humility, and clarity, especially for the sake of those still exploring faith.

Ultimately, the episode centers on being a church that is clear, welcoming, and distraction-free in its worship—where everything we do helps people see Jesus, not us.

Topics discussed in this episode:

• 00:00 - Intro
• 01:25 - 1 Corinthians 14: Orderly Worship & Speaking in Tongues
• 02:29 - How to Interpret Difficult Passages
• 06:10 - Emotional Honesty When Reading the Bible
• 07:25 - Rick's Personal Bible Study Method
• 10:09 - Vulnerability & Authenticity in Church Community
• 13:47 - Performative Spirituality
• 17:47 - Personal Experiences with Charismatic Worship
• 19:47 - Order vs. Freedom in Worship
• 23:03 - Sermon Prep: Manuscript vs. Extemporaneous Preaching
• 25:02 - Clarity, Jesus, and the Purpose of Scripture
• 30:38 - Being a Good Ambassador at Easter

In this episode of Church Is Messy, Rick and Svea revisit 1 Corinthians 13 following Svea’s weekend sermon—looking beyond its reputation as a wedding passage to what Paul was actually addressing in a deeply dysfunctional church. What emerges is a clear picture of spiritual maturity shaped by love.

Svea shares how her understanding of the passage grew as she studied it, alongside a six-stage framework of spiritual growth—discovering, learning, doing, contemplating, becoming, and loving—and the experience many encounter as “the wall,” where faith can feel uncertain or stalled. Rather than signaling failure, this season may be an invitation to deeper, more lasting transformation.

The conversation also names a tension many feel: much of church culture emphasizes learning and doing, while the deeper, more inward work of formation often goes unexplored. Through practical examples like patience, Rick and Svea show the movement from something we try to practice to something that becomes part of who we are as we follow Jesus.

Topics discussed in this episode:

• 00:00 — Intro
• 01:07 — Introducing the sermon on 1 Corinthians 13.
• 01:14 — Svea's initial reaction to preaching the Love Chapter.
• 02:36 — The true context of 1 Cor. 13: love as a recipe for a dysfunctional church, not a wedding poem.
• 06:11 — What was left on the cutting room floor (tongues, knowledge ceasing, preview of Rick's next sermon).
• 08:10 — Paul's character: the tension between his perceived harshness and writing the most beautiful words about love.
• 10:41 — The opening sermon illustration: love that is imperfect but genuine vs. flawless but loveless.
• 12:53 — Introduction to the Spiritual Growth Framework.
• 12:57 — Stages 1–3: Discovering, Learning, and Doing.
• 17:41 — The Wall: what it is, what causes it, and why it's not a punishment.
• 23:41 — Stage 4: Contemplating (and why the church has an allergy to it).
• 25:16 — Stage 5: Becoming (motivation shifting from obligation to identity).
• 27:30 — Stage 6: Loving (virtue becoming instinctive, not intentional).
• 29:56 — Practical walkthrough of all six stages using patience as the example.

This episode of "Church Is Messy" unpacks the sermon Rick preached on 1 Corinthians 12 and the topic of spiritual gifts. Rick opened that message with a reflection on mortality — the "dash" between a person's birth and death date — prompting a lively discussion about whether they'd want to know their end date in advance (both say yes, though they acknowledge they're in the minority). This leads into the central theme: how an awareness of limited time should motivate intentional use of the gifts God has given each person.

Rick and Svea explore several facets of spiritual gifting: how to discover your gifts (through prayer, availability, and asking others for feedback), the pitfalls of spiritual gift surveys (which can cause people to feel exempt from responsibilities they score low in, like hospitality or evangelism), and the importance of leaning into strengths rather than fixating on weaknesses. Rick shares his own conviction that teaching God's word is his irreplaceable calling, while also emphasizing that all spiritual gifts — from encouragement to listening to generosity — can be exercised anywhere, not just in formal ministry roles.

The episode closes on a devotional note, with both hosts reflecting that a life oriented outward toward others — living as a "there you are" person rather than a "here I am" person — is not only God's design but also the source of the deepest joy. Svea teases the upcoming weekend's message (her turn to preach), which will continue into 1 Corinthians 13 on love as the ultimate motivation for using one's gifts.

Topics discussed in this episode:

• 00:00 — Intro
• 03:44 — Recap of the Sermon on 1 Corinthians 12 / Spiritual Gifts
• 04:41 — Would You Want to Know Your End Date?
• 09:10 — Rick's Personal Calling and Use of His Gifts
• 11:04 — Every Believer Is Gifted
• 14:04 — Barriers to Using Your Gifts
• 18:03 — The Downside of Spiritual Gift Surveys
• 26:38 — Living Out Your Dash with Intentionality
• 31:24 — Preview of the Upcoming Weekend