A CMO Confidential Interview with Bill Zengel, B2B Practice Leader and SVP of the Association of National Advertisers (ANA). Bill explains how there's nearly $2 trillion in hidden brand value in the B2B space, how to become one of the 39% of B2B marketers who are confident, why marketers should focus on contribution versus attribution, and why measurement is more complicated in the B2B space. Key discussion topics include: why one of the main emotions in B2B buyers can be fear of failure; the importance of being on the "Day One List;" and how to avoid the forces that drive conservative creative in a time where breakthrough matters. Tune in to hear if you suffer from "lead addiction" and how many fries are in a Burger King serving.

The Confident B2B Marketer: The 8 Markers That Separate Winners (with ANA’s Bill Zengel)

Only 39% of B2B marketers describe themselves as “confident.” In this episode of CMO Confidential, Mike Linton sits down with Bill Zengel (SVP, B2B Practice Leader at the Association of National Advertisers) to break down what the top performers do differently—and why “confidence” is really a proxy for measurable commercial contribution.

Bill shares the research behind ANA’s Confident B2B Marketer study (built from a survey of 200 senior marketers) and the operating system it points to: measurement first, then AI readiness built on a real data foundation, modern ABM, buyer-group/channel strategy, brand and creativity, and the martech stack that makes it all work. The conversation also gets into the leadership tension that keeps teams stuck—lead addiction, short-term performance thinking, and the core emotion that drives B2B buying: fear.

What you’ll learn:

- Why B2B marketing is still unevenly managed—and why that’s changing

- The 8 “markers” that correlate with B2B marketing success

- Why AI readiness is mostly a data foundation problem

- The shift from attribution arguments to contribution language

- Why lead addiction and “performance marketing” create short-term traps

- How fear shapes B2B creativity (and how winners still take smart risks)

- Why customer reviews and existing customers matter more than most teams admit

Resources mentioned:

- ANA B2B Practice: https://www.ana.net/b2b

Chapters:

00:00 Welcome + today’s topic (The Confident B2B Marketer) + Bill Zengel

01:38 Why so many B2B studies (measurement, accountability, contribution)

03:01 Is B2B marketing worse managed than B2C?

04:35 From “Marcom” to buyer groups + younger self-serve buyers

06:00 What “confident” means + how ANA designed the study

06:23 Why Bill fielded the study + surveying 200 senior marketers

07:42 The “biomarkers” story: how to identify what actually matters

09:18 The 8 markers (measurement, AI readiness, ABM, buyer-group/channel, brand/creativity, data foundation, martech)

11:22 AI readiness explained: why data foundations are the real constraint

16:05 Measurement reframed: contribution vs. attribution

17:53 Brand as a moat (and why major “B2B brands” dominate value)

19:56 Lead addiction + the short-term performance marketing trap

22:16 The core B2B buying emotion is fear—and why that blocks creativity

25:14 The B2B brand opportunity (and why solving it extends careers)

26:08 What boards/CEOs should test now to avoid getting passed

27:55 The “Day One List” + how peer/customer reviews shape growth

28:52 Two great stories: the missing Trojan horse + Burger King fry-counting

31:28 Where to find more episodes + sign-off

New shows drop every Tuesday. Subscribe for more interviews on marketing leadership, measurement, brand-to-demand, and modern B2B growth.

#B2BMarketing #MarketingMeasurement #CMO #ABM #BrandStrategy

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A CMO Confidential Interview with Tom Goodwin, author, speaker, and former innovation head at Publicis, Zenith, and Havas. Tom discusses why he believes much of the thinking around AI is wrong, how social media is becoming even more shallow, and why agentic commerce will be a challenge. Key discussion topics include the difference between selling more and being able to charge more; how consumers often enjoy the shopping experience in a way that resists algorithmic understanding; and why AI adoption will follow the adoption path of electricity. Tune in to hear why 90% of people in advertising don't know how it really works and how to think of your job as making your brand exceptional.

Marketing leaders are getting pulled in two directions at once: “AI will change everything” and “AI is overhyped.” In this episode of *CMO Confidential*, Mike Linton (former CMO of Best Buy, eBay, Farmers Insurance, and Ancestry) sits down with Tom Goodwin to sort through the contradictions—what’s real, what’s performative, and what executives should do next.

Tom has spent his career studying innovation and change, and he brings a clear-eyed view on how AI is reshaping marketing work: where it genuinely compresses time and effort, where it increases noise and sameness, and how organizations can avoid chasing tools instead of outcomes. The conversation also touches on the hidden second-order effects—how incentives shift, how decision-making changes, and why “doing more” isn’t the same as “doing better.”

If you’re a CMO, CEO, or growth leader trying to separate signal from hype, this is a practical, grounded listen.

Subscribe for weekly episodes of CMO Confidential.

cmo confidential, mike linton, tom goodwin, ai marketing, marketing leadership, chief marketing officer, marketing strategy, generative ai, artificial intelligence, martech, brand strategy, performance marketing, marketing effectiveness, measurement, incrementality, go to market, innovation, digital transformation, marketing operations, agency management, marketing trends 2026, executive leadership, growth strategy, content strategy, customer experience, personalization, automation, creative strategy

00:00 Intro: CMO Confidential + today’s topic with Tom Goodwin

01:20 Why AI creates contradictory truths in marketing

05:10 The biggest misconception leaders have about “AI transformation”

09:30 What AI actually compresses (and what it doesn’t)

14:25 When “more content” makes marketing worse

18:40 Differentiation in an AI-saturated landscape

23:05 What changes inside teams: roles, incentives, accountability

28:10 Measurement, trust, and the executive narrative problem

33:20 Where CMOs should place bets vs. run experiments

38:15 Practical questions to ask vendors, agencies, and internal teams

43:10 Closing reflections + what to do next

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A CMO Confidential Interview with Pete Imwalla, former CEO of RPA and 4A's board member. Pete shares his take on how many tech changes resulted in additional agency headcount, how AI is rapidly reversing that trend, and why many agency valuations have dropped significantly over the last 5 years. Key topics include: why brand building is like infrastructure; how Publicis is bucking the trend; how to think about "in-housing;" and why Paul Roetzer's CMO 2023 CMO Confidential show was prescient. Tune in to hear about the "2nd mover advantage" and why he hates the concept of "future proofing."

Agency economics are getting rewritten in the age of AI. Mike Linton sits down with Pete Imwalle 32-year RPA veteran and former CEO to dissect what’s changing—and what leaders should do about it. They cover the shift from reach to relevance, why FTE-based fees are misaligned in an AI world, how to separate automation from actual advantage, and where in-housing does and doesn’t work. Along the way: the sustained business impact of the Farmers “We know a thing or two…” campaign, the rise of agentic workflows, and why “future-proofing” starts with culture, not clairvoyance.

Chapters

00:00:00 – Cold open + show setup

00:00:22 – Mike’s intro, Pete’s background, and today’s topic

00:01:18 – Farmers campaign wins Sustained Effie) and effectiveness creativity

00:02:18 – 30 years of change: from Prodigy/AOL/CompuServe to Netscape and the open web

00:03:24 – Google + broadband: when digital finally changed consumer behavior

00:04:33 – Mobile’s second wave and the trap of “mobile-first/AI-first” strategies

00:06:01 – How agencies adapted: leadership, curiosity, and tolerance for experimentation

00:07:42 – Investing ahead of revenue: offense + defense in capability building

00:08:22 – Reach fragmentation: from “40% on Cheers” to only the Super Bowl

00:09:18 – The real squeeze: boards treating advertising as expense, not investment

00:10:13 – Short-termism, PE/VC incentives, and brand vs. performance

00:12:21 – “Adapt or die”: AI as an extinction event? (hat tip: Paul Roetzer)

00:13:28 – Agentic workflows: shrinking grunt work (esp. media & strategy ops)

00:16:00 – Client asks: “give me savings, don’t risk my IP”

00:16:36 – Why FTE pricing disincentivizes efficiency; pay for outcomes instead

00:17:51 – Three futures: AI-native, AI-emergent, or obsolete

00:21:39 – Holding-company moves; why Publicis is outpacing peers

00:22:00 – Agency valuations: ~40% decline over five years; second-mover advantage in AI

00:26:37 – In-housing: when it works, when it backfires, and true cost to own

00:28:48 – Build vs. buy: amortization, maintenance, and staying current

00:30:16 – The Geico lesson: investing through the curve until returns flatten

00:31:22 – What to test by EOY 2026: culture, change management, and low-hanging automation

00:34:02 – Ditch “future-proofing”; hire for curiosity and adaptability

00:35:35 – Wrap + where to find more CMO Confidential

Tags

CMO Confidential,Mike Linton,Pete Imwalle,RPA,agency economics,advertising,marketing leadership,AI in marketing,agentic workflows,media planning,marketing strategy,brand vs performance,FTE pricing,procurement,in-housing,holding companies,Publicis,Omnicom,Super Bowl ads,Effie Awards,Farmers Insurance campaign,Geico case study,change management,digital transformation,marketing AI,MarTech,measurement,short term vs long term,CMO,CEO,CFO,board governance

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A CMO Confidential Interview with James Shira, Principal, Global and US CIO and Global CISO at PwC. James details how @PwC is running an "AI marketplace" within the company which features a number of models, his focus on scale, security, and user experience, and the case for approaching AI with a "humility" mindset. Key topics include: how the CISO (Chief Information Security Officer) balances rapid enablement and security needs; why CMO's should have a working knowledge of the technology roadmap; and tips for aligning with your CIO. Tune in to hear how to "go rogue" if you must and a story about socks.

Sponsored by Scrunch AI: learn more here → https://www.scrunchai.com/cmo

Global CIO & CISO James Shira joins Mike to decode what your CIO wishes you knew—AI adoption, security trade-offs, model “marketplaces,” and how CMOs should really partner with IT. Concrete guidance on prioritization, tech stack decisions, legacy constraints, and when “going rogue” is justified. Practical, senior-level playbook for winning with AI without lighting money—or trust—on fire.

**Chapters**

00:00 – Welcome & setup: “What your CIO wants to tell you, but won’t”

01:15 – The AI era: pace, complexity, stakeholder pressure

03:24 – Humility first: why being late to AI isn’t OK

04:09 – Designing for scale, security, and real user adoption at PwC

06:00 – Building a model “marketplace” (40+ models) & minimum bars

07:27 – Guardrails: encryption, data governance, and safe experimentation

09:32 – Adoption reality: super-users, skeptics, and moving the middle

11:00 – What “leading” looks like: C-suite prioritization & high-value use cases

13:00 – CISO shift: from gatekeeper to enabler; managing Kobayashi-Maru choices

16:59 – How marketers help: anticipate CIO/CISO problems, simplify choices

19:00 – MarTech the smart way: align to architecture, reduce sprawl, bring options

22:00 – No IT dance partner? Work with COO/CFO; standardize and choose fit over “sexy”

24:33 – Legacy estates: outsource vs. “AI-ify” retained work; show ROI math

26:29 – When to go rogue—and how not to get fired doing it

31:00 – Free advice to agencies: do the work, bring substance, not spam

32:00 – Closing & funniest story (Zurich board-meeting socks)

CMO Confidential,Mike Linton,James Shira,PwC,CIO,CISO,AI,GenAI,AI adoption,AI governance,cybersecurity,enterprise IT,MarTech,marketing technology,tech stack,cloud strategy,data governance,model marketplace,digital transformation,change management,prioritization,COO,CFO,CapEx,legacy modernization,outsourcing,automation,meeting summaries,audit,experimentation,go rogue,executive leadership,marketing strategy,enterprise software,boardroom,CMO tips

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"Marketing at Meta - The View From the Eye of the Storm"

A CMO Confidential Interview with Alex Schultz, the Meta CMO and VP of Analytics, and author of Click Here: The Art & Science of Digital Marketing and Advertising. Alex details why he believes in decentralized analytics and the importance of focusing on core results vs vanity metrics, why AI is a "threshold technology", and why and how the company transitioned to Meta. Key topics include: the barbell distribution of AI competency (native users and very senior experienced leaders); why he believes so strongly in "incrementality measurements"; how he and his team handle the emotional impact of being in the center of political discussions and; why marketers should be thinking about 2027. Tune in to hear a story about affiliate marketing incentives gone wrong and the eBay/Google "Tea Party" incident.

What’s it really like to be CMO at one of the most scrutinized companies in the world?

In this episode of **CMO Confidential**, host Mike Linton sits down with **Alex Schultz**, CMO and VP of Analytics at Meta, for a wide-ranging, unfiltered conversation on marketing leadership inside the eye of the storm. Alex breaks down how Meta structures marketing and analytics at global scale, why marketing must be centralized while analytics should not, and what most companies get wrong about “one source of truth.”

The conversation goes deep on navigating nonstop political and cultural pressure, shortening negative news cycles, and keeping teams emotionally grounded when the brand is under fire. Alex also shares some of the clearest executive thinking we’ve heard on AI as a *threshold technology* — where it truly creates leverage, where humans must stay in the loop, and how CMOs should assess AI talent today.

The episode closes with inside stories from the Facebook-to-Meta rebrand, hard-earned lessons from eBay on incrementality measurement, and practical advice for preparing your organization for 2027 and beyond.

If you’re a CMO, CEO, founder, or senior operator responsible for growth, measurement, and brand under pressure — this is required listening.

New episodes of **CMO Confidential** drop every Tuesday.

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## Chapters & Timestamps

00:00 – Welcome to CMO Confidential

00:01 – Alex Schultz’s role: CMO & VP of Analytics at Meta

00:03 – Why marketing is centralized but analytics are decentralized

00:06 – “One source of truth” and killing vanity metrics

00:09 – Marketing while constantly in the global spotlight

00:11 – Managing crisis cycles, truth, and comms alignment

00:12 – AI’s real impact on marketing productivity

00:15 – AI as a threshold technology (precision vs. recall)

00:17 – How AI is reshaping analytics, creative, and teams

00:18 – Hiring for AI: the barbell talent distribution

00:22 – Preparing for 2027: information flow and AI philosophy

00:25 – How B2B marketing is (and isn’t) changing

00:28 – Inside the Facebook → Meta rebrand

00:32 – Lessons from eBay: incrementality over last-click

00:36 – What downturns reveal about leadership talent

00:37 – Why Alex wrote his book on digital marketing

00:40 – Affiliate marketing, incentives, and unintended consequences

00:43 – Final advice for CMOs and marketers

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CMO Confidential, Alex Schultz, Meta marketing, Facebook Meta rebrand, marketing leadership, CMO podcast, executive marketing, analytics strategy, marketing analytics, AI in marketing, artificial intelligence marketing, incrementality measurement, digital marketing strategy, B2B marketing, growth marketing, brand under pressure, crisis communications, marketing measurement, performance marketing, last click attribution, marketing org design, marketing podcast

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A CMO Confidential Interview with DJ Patil, Great Point Ventures investor and former U.S. Chief Data Scientist in the Obama Administration. DJ discusses why AI adoption is "lumpy" like unbaked cake mix, the difference between large models and focused applications, and why consultants are probably not the best way to make progress. Key topics include: Maslow's Hierarchy of AI with power, data and water as the foundation; a timeline juxtaposition of AI evolution versus culture and policy change; and his belief that marketers have a unique position to add "human connectivity" in to the mix. Tune in to hear a view on AI and health care as well as how Waymo almost ruined a date night.

What does AI adoption *really* look like inside large organizations—and why does it feel so uneven?

In this episode of **CMO Confidential**, host **Mike Linton** sits down with **DJ Patil**—former U.S. Chief Data Scientist, AI leader at eBay and LinkedIn, and longtime advisor and investor—for a clear-eyed update from the front lines of AI.

DJ explains why AI progress feels “lumpy,” why culture—not technology—is the biggest blocker to ROI, and what boards, CEOs, and CMOs must do now to avoid falling behind. From autonomous warfare and small models to Wall Street hype cycles, job displacement, and what AI means for the future of marketing, this is a practical, executive-level conversation about what’s real, what’s noise, and what comes next.

If you lead a company, manage a brand, sit on a board, or are building a career in marketing, this episode will recalibrate how you think about AI adoption, investment, and organizational change.

🎧 New episodes of **CMO Confidential** drop every Tuesday.

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Chapters / Timestamps

00:00 – Welcome to CMO Confidential

00:32 – Introducing DJ Patil and today’s AI focus

01:26 – Where are we really on the AI adoption curve?

02:54 – Why AI progress feels “lumpy” across industries

03:35 – AI fluency vs. AI-native talent

05:22 – AI in education: banning it vs. embracing it

05:57 – AI on the battlefield: Ukraine, drones, and autonomy

07:50 – Big models vs. small models and open source AI

08:12 – The AI investment landscape and industry chaos

09:12 – AI breakthroughs in math and problem-solving

10:52 – Where AI is actually delivering value today

11:50 – ROI, hype cycles, and Amara’s Law

13:46 – When AI savings really show up on the balance sheet

15:17 – Why culture is the biggest blocker to AI success

16:03 – AI speed vs. slow-moving organizations and policy

18:13 – Why executives can’t delegate AI leadership

19:56 – The limits of traditional consulting for AI

22:41 – Job cuts, automation, and what AI is really replacing

25:48 – Why AI isn’t “ready” yet—but is getting close

26:32 – AI as the biggest prize in the history of capitalism

27:18 – Where DJ Patil is investing in AI

29:00 – AI opportunities in healthcare and government

30:27 – What AI means for marketers and marketing careers

34:10 – A Waymo story: the promise and imperfections of AI

35:12 – Final thoughts and where to find more episodes

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CMO Confidential, DJ Patil, Mike Linton, AI adoption, artificial intelligence strategy, AI for executives, AI and marketing, AI ROI, AI investment, AI leadership, AI culture, future of marketing, chief marketing officer, CMO podcast, executive podcast, boardroom strategy, AI transformation, AI jobs, AI and automation, AI in healthcare, AI governance, enterprise AI, AI fluency, AI native, tech leadership, data science, digital transformation

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