A CMO Confidential Interview with Bill Zengel, B2B Practice Leader and SVP of the Association of National Advertisers (ANA). Bill explains how there's nearly $2 trillion in hidden brand value in the B2B space, how to become one of the 39% of B2B marketers who are confident, why marketers should focus on contribution versus attribution, and why measurement is more complicated in the B2B space. Key discussion topics include: why one of the main emotions in B2B buyers can be fear of failure; the importance of being on the "Day One List;" and how to avoid the forces that drive conservative creative in a time where breakthrough matters. Tune in to hear if you suffer from "lead addiction" and how many fries are in a Burger King serving.

The Confident B2B Marketer: The 8 Markers That Separate Winners (with ANA’s Bill Zengel)

Only 39% of B2B marketers describe themselves as “confident.” In this episode of CMO Confidential, Mike Linton sits down with Bill Zengel (SVP, B2B Practice Leader at the Association of National Advertisers) to break down what the top performers do differently—and why “confidence” is really a proxy for measurable commercial contribution.

Bill shares the research behind ANA’s Confident B2B Marketer study (built from a survey of 200 senior marketers) and the operating system it points to: measurement first, then AI readiness built on a real data foundation, modern ABM, buyer-group/channel strategy, brand and creativity, and the martech stack that makes it all work. The conversation also gets into the leadership tension that keeps teams stuck—lead addiction, short-term performance thinking, and the core emotion that drives B2B buying: fear.

What you’ll learn:

- Why B2B marketing is still unevenly managed—and why that’s changing

- The 8 “markers” that correlate with B2B marketing success

- Why AI readiness is mostly a data foundation problem

- The shift from attribution arguments to contribution language

- Why lead addiction and “performance marketing” create short-term traps

- How fear shapes B2B creativity (and how winners still take smart risks)

- Why customer reviews and existing customers matter more than most teams admit

Resources mentioned:

- ANA B2B Practice: https://www.ana.net/b2b

Chapters:

00:00 Welcome + today’s topic (The Confident B2B Marketer) + Bill Zengel

01:38 Why so many B2B studies (measurement, accountability, contribution)

03:01 Is B2B marketing worse managed than B2C?

04:35 From “Marcom” to buyer groups + younger self-serve buyers

06:00 What “confident” means + how ANA designed the study

06:23 Why Bill fielded the study + surveying 200 senior marketers

07:42 The “biomarkers” story: how to identify what actually matters

09:18 The 8 markers (measurement, AI readiness, ABM, buyer-group/channel, brand/creativity, data foundation, martech)

11:22 AI readiness explained: why data foundations are the real constraint

16:05 Measurement reframed: contribution vs. attribution

17:53 Brand as a moat (and why major “B2B brands” dominate value)

19:56 Lead addiction + the short-term performance marketing trap

22:16 The core B2B buying emotion is fear—and why that blocks creativity

25:14 The B2B brand opportunity (and why solving it extends careers)

26:08 What boards/CEOs should test now to avoid getting passed

27:55 The “Day One List” + how peer/customer reviews shape growth

28:52 Two great stories: the missing Trojan horse + Burger King fry-counting

31:28 Where to find more episodes + sign-off

New shows drop every Tuesday. Subscribe for more interviews on marketing leadership, measurement, brand-to-demand, and modern B2B growth.

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A CMO Confidential Interview with Tom Goodwin, author, speaker, and former innovation head at Publicis, Zenith, and Havas. Tom discusses why he believes much of the thinking around AI is wrong, how social media is becoming even more shallow, and why agentic commerce will be a challenge. Key discussion topics include the difference between selling more and being able to charge more; how consumers often enjoy the shopping experience in a way that resists algorithmic understanding; and why AI adoption will follow the adoption path of electricity. Tune in to hear why 90% of people in advertising don't know how it really works and how to think of your job as making your brand exceptional.

Marketing leaders are getting pulled in two directions at once: “AI will change everything” and “AI is overhyped.” In this episode of *CMO Confidential*, Mike Linton (former CMO of Best Buy, eBay, Farmers Insurance, and Ancestry) sits down with Tom Goodwin to sort through the contradictions—what’s real, what’s performative, and what executives should do next.

Tom has spent his career studying innovation and change, and he brings a clear-eyed view on how AI is reshaping marketing work: where it genuinely compresses time and effort, where it increases noise and sameness, and how organizations can avoid chasing tools instead of outcomes. The conversation also touches on the hidden second-order effects—how incentives shift, how decision-making changes, and why “doing more” isn’t the same as “doing better.”

If you’re a CMO, CEO, or growth leader trying to separate signal from hype, this is a practical, grounded listen.

Subscribe for weekly episodes of CMO Confidential.

cmo confidential, mike linton, tom goodwin, ai marketing, marketing leadership, chief marketing officer, marketing strategy, generative ai, artificial intelligence, martech, brand strategy, performance marketing, marketing effectiveness, measurement, incrementality, go to market, innovation, digital transformation, marketing operations, agency management, marketing trends 2026, executive leadership, growth strategy, content strategy, customer experience, personalization, automation, creative strategy

00:00 Intro: CMO Confidential + today’s topic with Tom Goodwin

01:20 Why AI creates contradictory truths in marketing

05:10 The biggest misconception leaders have about “AI transformation”

09:30 What AI actually compresses (and what it doesn’t)

14:25 When “more content” makes marketing worse

18:40 Differentiation in an AI-saturated landscape

23:05 What changes inside teams: roles, incentives, accountability

28:10 Measurement, trust, and the executive narrative problem

33:20 Where CMOs should place bets vs. run experiments

38:15 Practical questions to ask vendors, agencies, and internal teams

43:10 Closing reflections + what to do next

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A CMO Confidential Interview with Pete Imwalla, former CEO of RPA and 4A's board member. Pete shares his take on how many tech changes resulted in additional agency headcount, how AI is rapidly reversing that trend, and why many agency valuations have dropped significantly over the last 5 years. Key topics include: why brand building is like infrastructure; how Publicis is bucking the trend; how to think about "in-housing;" and why Paul Roetzer's CMO 2023 CMO Confidential show was prescient. Tune in to hear about the "2nd mover advantage" and why he hates the concept of "future proofing."

Agency economics are getting rewritten in the age of AI. Mike Linton sits down with Pete Imwalle 32-year RPA veteran and former CEO to dissect what’s changing—and what leaders should do about it. They cover the shift from reach to relevance, why FTE-based fees are misaligned in an AI world, how to separate automation from actual advantage, and where in-housing does and doesn’t work. Along the way: the sustained business impact of the Farmers “We know a thing or two…” campaign, the rise of agentic workflows, and why “future-proofing” starts with culture, not clairvoyance.

Chapters

00:00:00 – Cold open + show setup

00:00:22 – Mike’s intro, Pete’s background, and today’s topic

00:01:18 – Farmers campaign wins Sustained Effie) and effectiveness creativity

00:02:18 – 30 years of change: from Prodigy/AOL/CompuServe to Netscape and the open web

00:03:24 – Google + broadband: when digital finally changed consumer behavior

00:04:33 – Mobile’s second wave and the trap of “mobile-first/AI-first” strategies

00:06:01 – How agencies adapted: leadership, curiosity, and tolerance for experimentation

00:07:42 – Investing ahead of revenue: offense + defense in capability building

00:08:22 – Reach fragmentation: from “40% on Cheers” to only the Super Bowl

00:09:18 – The real squeeze: boards treating advertising as expense, not investment

00:10:13 – Short-termism, PE/VC incentives, and brand vs. performance

00:12:21 – “Adapt or die”: AI as an extinction event? (hat tip: Paul Roetzer)

00:13:28 – Agentic workflows: shrinking grunt work (esp. media & strategy ops)

00:16:00 – Client asks: “give me savings, don’t risk my IP”

00:16:36 – Why FTE pricing disincentivizes efficiency; pay for outcomes instead

00:17:51 – Three futures: AI-native, AI-emergent, or obsolete

00:21:39 – Holding-company moves; why Publicis is outpacing peers

00:22:00 – Agency valuations: ~40% decline over five years; second-mover advantage in AI

00:26:37 – In-housing: when it works, when it backfires, and true cost to own

00:28:48 – Build vs. buy: amortization, maintenance, and staying current

00:30:16 – The Geico lesson: investing through the curve until returns flatten

00:31:22 – What to test by EOY 2026: culture, change management, and low-hanging automation

00:34:02 – Ditch “future-proofing”; hire for curiosity and adaptability

00:35:35 – Wrap + where to find more CMO Confidential

Tags

CMO Confidential,Mike Linton,Pete Imwalle,RPA,agency economics,advertising,marketing leadership,AI in marketing,agentic workflows,media planning,marketing strategy,brand vs performance,FTE pricing,procurement,in-housing,holding companies,Publicis,Omnicom,Super Bowl ads,Effie Awards,Farmers Insurance campaign,Geico case study,change management,digital transformation,marketing AI,MarTech,measurement,short term vs long term,CMO,CEO,CFO,board governance

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