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Summary

In this episode, Rowan Stone—co-founder and CEO of Sapien—shares his path from entrepreneur to building a mission-driven company at the intersection of AI and crypto. He discusses how Sapien is tackling one of the biggest challenges in AI: sourcing high-quality, human-generated data at scale. Rowan emphasizes the importance of aligning incentives from the start, building trust with contributors, and creating a system where real people help train more useful, nuanced AI models. The conversation touches on strategic partnerships, market demand, and how onboarding and education will define the future of the data economy.

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Takeaways

— Rowan previously sold a company to Coinbase before launching Sapien.

— Sapien’s goal is to monetize human understanding for AI training.

— Real-world data from real people is essential for effective AI.

— The need for labeled, high-quality data is growing exponentially.

— Incentives and quality control are deeply integrated in Sapien’s model.

— Onboarding and contributor education are critical for scale.

— Sapien sees collaboration—not just competition—as a strength.

— Upskilling contributors increases data quality and platform value.

— Crypto-native incentives enable transparent, scalable coordination.

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Timeline

(00:00) Introduction to Rowan Stone and His Background

(02:55) The Vision Behind Sapien

(06:06) Understanding AI and Data Annotation

(09:01) The Role of Humans in AI Development

(12:14) Sapien’s Unique Approach to Data Annotation

(14:50) Partnerships and Customer Base

(18:11) Quality Control and Community Involvement

(21:13) On-Chain Coordination and Incentives

(23:56) Demand for AI Data and Market Insights

(29:51) The Future of Data Demand

(30:44) Collaboration Over Competition

(32:49) Revenue Generation in Crypto

(35:31) The Two-Sided Market of Sapien

(39:08) Customer Success Stories

(44:35) The Role of Skills in Data Contribution

(47:59) The Importance of Education and Onboarding

(49:20) Inspiration and Influences

(50:11) Overrated Trends in AI and Crypto

(51:11) Distribution Channels for Onboarding

(54:19) The Impact of TikTok on User Acquisition

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Summary

In this episode, Teemu Paivinen—co-founder of ZK Cloud—walks through his long-standing journey in crypto, starting from Bitcoin in 2011 to building one of Europe’s first Bitcoin exchanges. He shares key lessons from his time at OpenZeppelin, where he helped shape the gold standard for smart contract security, and introduces the vision for ZK Cloud: a decentralized middleware layer focused on reducing the cost and friction of zero-knowledge proofs. Teemu dives into the current state of ZK proving networks, outlines why decentralization is non-negotiable for blockchain infrastructure, and lays out ZK Cloud’s roadmap to mainnet. Rather than competing, ZK Cloud is designed to collaborate across the stack, serving builders who need affordable, reliable ZK proving as a service.

Takeaways

— Teemu entered crypto in 2011, eventually founding an early Bitcoin exchange in Europe
— OpenZeppelin shaped his views on trust and secure infrastructure
— ZK Cloud aims to lower the cost of zero-knowledge proofs via decentralized systems
— The project serves as middleware for other blockchain applications needing ZK proving
— Teemu sees decentralization as essential for long-term viability in crypto
— Rather than focusing on competitors, ZK Cloud seeks to collaborate across ecosystems
— The ultimate vision: all ZK proofs being generated via ZK Cloud
— Mainnet is targeted for the first half of the year

Timeline

(00:00) Teemu Paivinen’s Journey into Crypto
(06:40) Lessons from OpenZeppelin and Building Equilibrium
(14:15) ZK Cloud: Addressing Cost and Decentralization
(22:10) The Market Dynamics of ZK Cloud
(27:55) The Evolution of ZK Proving Networks
(31:29) ZK Cloud: The Future of Middleware
(32:21) The Shift from Optimistic to ZK Rollups
(36:12) Targeting Adoption: Strategies for ZK Cloud
(40:58) Growth Dynamics in the ZK Ecosystem
(46:12) Towards Mainnet: The Road Ahead for ZK Cloud

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Summary

In this conversation, Stephen Hess, co-founder of Metaplex, opens up about his journey from healthcare to crypto, how early exposure to Bitcoin shaped his curiosity, and what ultimately drew him into the Solana ecosystem. He explains how lessons from healthcare—especially the need to understand human psychology—have shaped his entrepreneurial thinking. Stephen shares how Metaplex has become foundational infrastructure for NFTs on Solana, providing standards, tooling, and developer support. The conversation also explores how NFTs could evolve into AI agents, the resilience of the Solana community, and what lies ahead for Metaplex as AI and regulatory challenges reshape the industry.

Takeaways

— Stephen first encountered Bitcoin in 2013, sparking his curiosity in crypto

— His healthcare background taught him to prioritize human behavior and decision-making in product design

— Metaplex sets the standard for NFTs and token issuance on Solana

— Solana’s architecture allows developers to build better UX without wrestling with infrastructure

— The Solana ecosystem has shown resilience through multiple downturns

— Stephen envisions NFTs becoming AI agents capable of acting on behalf of users

— A strong social layer keeps the Solana community motivated and mission-aligned

— Metaplex is focused on giving developers tools that abstract away complexity

— The team is watching regulatory shifts closely as AI, NFTs, and tokens converge

— Solana developers are united by a shared goal: radically better UX in crypto

Timeline

(00:00) Introduction to Stephen Hess and Metaplex

(00:54) Stephen’s journey into crypto and the Solana ecosystem

(02:59) How his healthcare background informs his approach

(09:52) The early days and evolution of Metaplex

(11:15) Navigating challenges and staying resilient

(19:15) NFTs as programmable AI agents

(25:59) What’s next for Metaplex and the Solana ecosystem

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