Facts tell but stories sell, so what does great B2B storytelling look like today?

In this episode of Beyond B2B Marketing, host Lee Odden sits down with Michael Brenner, VP of Thought Leadership and Customer Advocacy at Workday, to talk about how empathy-driven content can help B2B brands tell stories that build trust, drive retention, and stand out.

Michael shares insights from his journey from sales to marketing leadership and explains why "marketing has a marketing problem." He argues that marketing's true role is not promotion, it's helping. The conversation covers how thought leadership should focus on consistent value, why retention is the most overlooked growth lever in B2B, and how customer advocacy strengthens both acquisition and loyalty.

They also talk about the AI productivity paradox and why AI adoption is ultimately a leadership challenge vs. one about technology. Michael outlines practical guidance for redefining roles, measuring outcomes, and ensuring that storytelling remains human in a world of AI and generative content.

If you are a B2B marketer, CMO, content strategist, or business leader looking to create more meaningful engagement and measurable impact, this episode delivers actionable insights you can apply immediately.

Here's a timeline of their conversation:

00:00 Introduction to Michael Brenner and His Journey
01:39 Transition from Sales to Marketing
03:21 Role at Workday: Thought Leadership and Customer Advocacy
07:49 Defining Thought Leadership in Marketing
12:44 The Importance of Retention in Marketing
16:47 Influencer Collaboration in B2B Marketing
20:16 Experiential Content in Thought Leadership
23:49 Navigating the Productivity Trap with AI
29:35 Workforce Trends and AI Adoption
31:09 Empathy-Driven Leadership and Workforce Trends
32:37 The Role of Trust in Marketing
34:31 Human Connection in AI-Driven Marketing
37:16 Evolution of Marketing Channels
40:11 The Importance of Storytelling in Marketing
41:38 Crafting Emotional B2B Stories
44:23 Balancing Informative and Emotional Content
51:55 Breaking Free from the Status Quo in Marketing

Be sure to subscribe to Beyond B2B Marketing for conversations with industry leaders that are helping to guide the future of B2B marketing and how B2B companies can become Best Answer Brands.

What does human-centered marketing look like when AI is reshaping how buyers discover, evaluate and decide?

In this episode of Beyond B2B Marketing, host Lee Odden talks with Ashley Faus, Head of Lifecycle Marketing (Portfolio) at Atlassian and author of Human-Centered Marketing: How to Connect with Audiences in the Age of AI.

Ashley shares why traditional funnel thinking falls short in today's B2B environment and how marketers must rethink trust, content intent, and thought leadership. Together, they explore how human behavior-more than automation-should shape your strategy and how brands can authentically influence complex buying journeys.

In this episode, you'll discover:

🔷 Why the traditional marketing funnel no longer mirrors real B2B buyer behavior
🔷 How to build trust at every stage by aligning content with genuine audience intent
🔷 What genuine thought leadership really means-and what it doesn't
🔷 Practical frameworks for elevating internal experts and external validation
🔷How AI amplifies opportunities and risks in human-centric marketing

Whether you're leading content strategy, growth marketing, or customer experience, this episode reorients how influence, credibility, and trust fit into modern B2B demand generation.

Your next steps:
▶️ Subscribe to Beyond B2B Marketing for weekly insights you can put to work
⭐ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts to help other B2B leaders discover this show
🔗 Visit the show notes over at the B2B Marketing Blog to access the full transcript, resource links, and episode timestamps

In this episode of Beyond B2B Marketing, host Lee Odden, CEO of TopRank Marketing, is joined by Todd Lebo, CEO of Ascend2, to talk about why original research has become one of the most powerful proof points in modern B2B marketing.

Todd brings decades of experience across marketing publishing, data-driven research, and executive leadership. Drawing on Ascend2's work surveying nearly 800 senior B2B marketers, the conversation explores how research-driven content strengthens thought leadership, fuels influencer collaboration, and creates differentiated visibility in an AI-driven discovery environment.

Together, Lee and Todd discuss why data-backed insight is increasingly essential for helping buyers navigate complexity, reduce risk, and build confidence across the full customer lifecycle.

The discussion also addresses common gaps and missed opportunities. While nearly all marketers recognize the value of thought leadership, many still limit research-driven content to top-of-funnel awareness.

Todd shares practical guidance on extending research into sales enablement, customer onboarding, and post-sale engagement, as well as how experiential and interactive formats significantly increase repeat engagement.

The episode closes with a forward-looking perspective on AI discovery, answer engine optimization, and why brands that invest early in credible, differentiated research gain a durable advantage.

Highlights include:

• Why original research consistently outperforms other content formats for engagement
• How benchmarking data builds trust and supports buyer decision-making
• The role of influencers in adding context, credibility, and distribution to research
• Why experiential and interactive research content drives deeper engagement
• How original research improves visibility in AI-powered search and discovery
• Practical steps for getting started with research-driven thought leadership

This episode offers practical, experience-backed insight for B2B marketers, content leaders, and executives looking to use proof, not promotion, to earn trust, stand out in AI-driven discovery, and drive impact across the entire customer journey.

todd-lebo-power-of-proof

Guest: Todd Lebo, CEO, Ascend2
Host: Lee Odden, CEO, TopRank Marketing
Podcast: Beyond B2B Marketing

As an emerging top B2B marketing podcast, Beyond B2B Marketing delivers conversations with the leaders shaping the future of B2B marketing with actionable ideas to help your B2B company break free of boring B2B and become a Best Answer Brand.

In this episode of Beyond B2B Marketing, host Lee Odden, CEO of TopRank Marketing, is joined by Stephanie Losee, Director and Executive Editor at Salesforce and a longtime pioneer of content marketing for B2B brands.

Stephanie's career spans journalism, brand publishing, and executive content leadership - from Fortune Magazine to Dell, Autodesk, Politico, and now Salesforce. In this conversation, she talks about how B2B content has evolved, why thought leadership remains essential, and what B2B marketers must rethink as AI reshapes discovery and engagement.

Highlights include:

• The changing role of thought leadership in a world of AI-powered search and content saturation
• Why trust and credibility are now central to full-funnel B2B performance
• How internal alignment with sales and customer success can unlock greater content impact
• The difference between content promotion and creating a true value exchange with customers
• What AI will-and won't-replace in high-quality editorial and content strategy

This conversation offers a ton of practical insight for B2B marketers, content leaders, and CMOs that are looking to build more effective, human-centered content strategies while navigating the rapid changes fueled by AI.

Guest: Stephanie Losee, Director & Executive Editor, Salesforce
Host: Lee Odden, CEO, TopRank Marketing
Podcast: Beyond B2B Marketing

Subscribe to Beyond B2B Marketing for conversations with the people shaping the future of B2B marketing and practical ideas to help your brand stand out, earn trust, and drive impact beyond the funnel.

In this episode of Beyond B2B, host Lee Odden reconnects with longtime colleague Rishi Dave, Partner at Bain & Company and former CMO at Dun & Bradstreet, Vonage, and MongoDB. in this conversation they cover how B2B organizations are evolving from disconnected campaigns to modern growth systems-where AI accelerates performance but human creativity, story, and trust remain the true differentiators.

Rishi shares insights from Bain's work with leading global brands, including:

• How to move beyond "micro-productivity" AI pilots to enterprise-wide transformation.
• Why original research and thought leadership are essential to train AI and fuel differentiated content.
• The concept of "buyability" and how marketers can get their brand onto a buyer's Day-One List.
• What it takes to build category fame in a world where hidden buyers, peer validation, and emotional connection drive B2B decisions.
• How marketing leaders can design always-on, integrated systems that connect marketing, sales, and customer success for predictable growth.

Rishi also reflects on the creative side of leadership and how his love of science fiction sharpens his storytelling instincts. The conversation wraps up with advice for B2B marketers navigating the next era of human and AI collaboration.

In this episode of Beyond B2B, Lee Odden talks with Brian Solis, Head of Global Innovation at ServiceNow and author of Mindshift, about how AI, innovation, and human creativity are transforming the way B2B organizations build trust, lead change, and create value.

Brian shares how the ServiceNow Innovation Office helps companies bridge the gap between iteration and innovation using technology to imagine entirely new possibilities for the future. He also explains why B2B marketing transformation starts with how we think, not what we do, and how leaders can drum up the courage to unlearn, experiment, and lead with imagination.

We also explore the evolving role of B2B thought leadership in a world where AI-generated content has become ubiquitous. Brian breaks down what makes thought leadership credible and trustworthy, emphasizing empathy, generosity, and the power of human connection.

From the concept of "AI agents" reshaping the future of work to why trust has become the ultimate differentiator in business, this episode delivers both a practical and philosophical roadmap for B2B leaders navigating disruption with purpose and authenticity.

Key Questions Answered in This Episode:

• What does the Innovation Office at ServiceNow do, and what's its mission?
• Why does Brian say transformation starts with mindset, not technology?
• How can B2B leaders use AI as a "forcing function" for innovation instead of just automation?
• What's the difference between iteration and innovation, and why does it matter?
• How will AI and intelligent agents reshape the future of work?
• How can marketers retain human creativity in an AI-powered world?
• What makes great thought leadership content trustworthy?
• Why is empathy more powerful than expertise in building credibility?
• How should companies think about AI discoverability for thought leadership content?
• What does a "human-led, AI-powered" future really look like for B2B brands?

From LinkedIn Videos to Integrated Marketing: Heike Young on Creativity, Connection & B2B Marketing

What happens when one of LinkedIn's most engaging B2B creators brings her storytelling skills inside some of the world's biggest tech brands? In this episode, Heike Young joins Lee Odden to share how she's helped humanize B2B marketing through authentic video, integrated strategy, and a creator's mindset.

Episode Summary:
Heike Young, former Head of Content, Social & Integrated Marketing at Microsoft, and one of LinkedIn's most recognizable B2B video voices, joins Lee Odden to discuss the intersection of creativity, content, and authenticity. She shares how integrated marketing breaks down silos, how video fuels trust and personality in B2B, and why the future belongs to marketers who lead with humanity, not jargon.

Episode Takeaways Include:

• How Heike built one of LinkedIn's most-loved B2B creator brands through video

• Why integrated marketing delivers stronger storytelling across channels

• Tips for showing up authentically on camera (even if you hate filming)

• How to empower employees as creators and community voices

• Why humor, clarity, and empathy outperform corporate polish every time

Guest: Heike Young, Former Head of Content, Social & Integrated Marketing, Microsoft
Host: Lee Odden, CEO, TopRank Marketing

Read the full recap and show notes: https://www.toprankmarketing.com/blog/beyond-b2b-heike-young

In this episode of Beyond B2B Marketing, host Lee Odden sits down with Cindy Anderson, Chief Marketing Officer and Global Lead for Engagement and Eminence at the IBM Institute for Business Value and co-author of The ROI of Thought Leadership.

From Singapore, Cindy shares her journey from journalism to global thought leadership, defining what separates true thought leadership from traditional content marketing: evidence-based intelligence, independent of product promotion, that gives leaders the insight and inspiration to act. She discusses her groundbreaking research with 4,000 executives that quantified thought leadership's business impact, revealing that 87% of executives made a purchase decision in the past 90 days based on thought leadership and that it delivers a 156% ROI, 16 times higher than traditional campaigns.

Together, Lee and Cindy explore how thought leadership can serve as the 8th P of marketing - the platform that fuels brand awareness, trust, and full-funnel growth. Cindy explains the hub-and-spoke model, where a single research-backed idea becomes the foundation for multiple derivative assets, and why original research will only grow in value as AI transforms discovery.

They also dive into topics like synthetic data, answer engines, and the Global Thought Leadership Institute's efforts to standardize and "de-squishify" the discipline. For B2B marketers looking to elevate their influence, credibility, and ROI, Cindy makes a clear case for treating thought leadership not as content, but as a strategic business asset.

Episode Takeaways Include:

• The three traits that set thought leadership apart: data, expertise, and independence from commercial messaging

• Why 87% of executives make purchase decisions influenced by thought leadership

• How the "hub-and-spoke" model multiplies ROI by turning one big idea into many derivative assets

• Why thought leadership should be the platform other marketing campaigns are built upon - the "8th P" of marketing

• The growing importance of original research as a trust signal in the AI era

• How AI can extend thought leadership content without sacrificing credibility

• The role of synthetic data in niche research - and the risk of losing trust if misused

• Why every B2B organization can quantify and prove the ROI of their thought leadership initiatives