Facts tell but stories sell, so what does great B2B storytelling look like today?

In this episode of Beyond B2B Marketing, host Lee Odden sits down with Michael Brenner, VP of Thought Leadership and Customer Advocacy at Workday, to talk about how empathy-driven content can help B2B brands tell stories that build trust, drive retention, and stand out.

Michael shares insights from his journey from sales to marketing leadership and explains why "marketing has a marketing problem." He argues that marketing's true role is not promotion, it's helping. The conversation covers how thought leadership should focus on consistent value, why retention is the most overlooked growth lever in B2B, and how customer advocacy strengthens both acquisition and loyalty.

They also talk about the AI productivity paradox and why AI adoption is ultimately a leadership challenge vs. one about technology. Michael outlines practical guidance for redefining roles, measuring outcomes, and ensuring that storytelling remains human in a world of AI and generative content.

If you are a B2B marketer, CMO, content strategist, or business leader looking to create more meaningful engagement and measurable impact, this episode delivers actionable insights you can apply immediately.

Here's a timeline of their conversation:

00:00 Introduction to Michael Brenner and His Journey
01:39 Transition from Sales to Marketing
03:21 Role at Workday: Thought Leadership and Customer Advocacy
07:49 Defining Thought Leadership in Marketing
12:44 The Importance of Retention in Marketing
16:47 Influencer Collaboration in B2B Marketing
20:16 Experiential Content in Thought Leadership
23:49 Navigating the Productivity Trap with AI
29:35 Workforce Trends and AI Adoption
31:09 Empathy-Driven Leadership and Workforce Trends
32:37 The Role of Trust in Marketing
34:31 Human Connection in AI-Driven Marketing
37:16 Evolution of Marketing Channels
40:11 The Importance of Storytelling in Marketing
41:38 Crafting Emotional B2B Stories
44:23 Balancing Informative and Emotional Content
51:55 Breaking Free from the Status Quo in Marketing

Be sure to subscribe to Beyond B2B Marketing for conversations with industry leaders that are helping to guide the future of B2B marketing and how B2B companies can become Best Answer Brands.

What does human-centered marketing look like when AI is reshaping how buyers discover, evaluate and decide?

In this episode of Beyond B2B Marketing, host Lee Odden talks with Ashley Faus, Head of Lifecycle Marketing (Portfolio) at Atlassian and author of Human-Centered Marketing: How to Connect with Audiences in the Age of AI.

Ashley shares why traditional funnel thinking falls short in today's B2B environment and how marketers must rethink trust, content intent, and thought leadership. Together, they explore how human behavior-more than automation-should shape your strategy and how brands can authentically influence complex buying journeys.

In this episode, you'll discover:

🔷 Why the traditional marketing funnel no longer mirrors real B2B buyer behavior
🔷 How to build trust at every stage by aligning content with genuine audience intent
🔷 What genuine thought leadership really means-and what it doesn't
🔷 Practical frameworks for elevating internal experts and external validation
🔷How AI amplifies opportunities and risks in human-centric marketing

Whether you're leading content strategy, growth marketing, or customer experience, this episode reorients how influence, credibility, and trust fit into modern B2B demand generation.

Your next steps:
▶️ Subscribe to Beyond B2B Marketing for weekly insights you can put to work
⭐ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts to help other B2B leaders discover this show
🔗 Visit the show notes over at the B2B Marketing Blog to access the full transcript, resource links, and episode timestamps

In this episode of Beyond B2B Marketing, host Lee Odden, CEO of TopRank Marketing, is joined by Todd Lebo, CEO of Ascend2, to talk about why original research has become one of the most powerful proof points in modern B2B marketing.

Todd brings decades of experience across marketing publishing, data-driven research, and executive leadership. Drawing on Ascend2's work surveying nearly 800 senior B2B marketers, the conversation explores how research-driven content strengthens thought leadership, fuels influencer collaboration, and creates differentiated visibility in an AI-driven discovery environment.

Together, Lee and Todd discuss why data-backed insight is increasingly essential for helping buyers navigate complexity, reduce risk, and build confidence across the full customer lifecycle.

The discussion also addresses common gaps and missed opportunities. While nearly all marketers recognize the value of thought leadership, many still limit research-driven content to top-of-funnel awareness.

Todd shares practical guidance on extending research into sales enablement, customer onboarding, and post-sale engagement, as well as how experiential and interactive formats significantly increase repeat engagement.

The episode closes with a forward-looking perspective on AI discovery, answer engine optimization, and why brands that invest early in credible, differentiated research gain a durable advantage.

Highlights include:

• Why original research consistently outperforms other content formats for engagement
• How benchmarking data builds trust and supports buyer decision-making
• The role of influencers in adding context, credibility, and distribution to research
• Why experiential and interactive research content drives deeper engagement
• How original research improves visibility in AI-powered search and discovery
• Practical steps for getting started with research-driven thought leadership

This episode offers practical, experience-backed insight for B2B marketers, content leaders, and executives looking to use proof, not promotion, to earn trust, stand out in AI-driven discovery, and drive impact across the entire customer journey.

todd-lebo-power-of-proof

Guest: Todd Lebo, CEO, Ascend2
Host: Lee Odden, CEO, TopRank Marketing
Podcast: Beyond B2B Marketing

As an emerging top B2B marketing podcast, Beyond B2B Marketing delivers conversations with the leaders shaping the future of B2B marketing with actionable ideas to help your B2B company break free of boring B2B and become a Best Answer Brand.