Data about the US labor market has been all over the headlines of late -- but what's actually in these numbers? Beyond the recent political upheaval surrounding the August 1, 2025, jobs report, the process of translating complex and nuanced things like labor market activity into numbers, and then making sense of those numbers while also being mindful of long-term deeper trends that might affect those interpretations -- is super fascinating and important.

In this episode we talk with Ben Casselman, Chief Economics Correspondent at the New York Times, about how to think about these numbers, how they fit into our broader understanding of the health of the economy, and some of the longer-term challenges facing our ability to collect this data going forward. It's a fascinating conversation and Ben is incredibly thoughtful and engaging, and I'm thrilled to share it with you.

Note: This interview was recorded in January 2025, well before the August jobs report release and subsequent firing of the head of the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS). That said, this discussion of how to think about the numbers, what's actually in them, and why economic activity can be really hard to measure -- is still super relevant, if not more relevant, today. In our next episode we will address the events since August. 1 in an interview with Erica Groshen, who was the head of the BLS from 2013-17.

As ever, thanks for listening! I hope you find this conversation as helpful as I did in making sense of the news.

Follow Ben and read his work! Here he is on X and LinkedIn. And here are some of my favorite articles by him of late:

• Ben’s recent writing on jobs data reliability (referenced at the opening of this episode)
• Ben’s writeup about the precedent of firing head of BLS (fantastic article for putting current events in context)
• Ben’s article about trust in economic data (referenced towards the end of this episode)

I'm at jonesrooy.com and @jonesrooy on all the things.

Behind the Data is a podcast that uncovers the hidden stories within the data shaping our world. From political polls to global happiness trackers, we dive into the datasets that influence the decisions we make—while showing you why data isn’t just numbers, but a way to understand the world. Whether you're a data newbie or a seasoned pro, each episode makes complex data approachable, revealing surprising insights and the human side of every dataset. Come for the discoveries, stay for the stories.

We are proud to be part of the Daily Tech News Show network of podcasts.

Subscribe and leave a review!

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We all want to be happier, yet we often avoid the very actions that research shows would actually improve our happiness. We talk with social psychologist Lara Aknin about her work as editor of the World Happiness Report and director of the Helping and Happiness Lab to explore what we know about what makes us happy, and why we don't do more of those things. From the surprising happiness boost we get from acts of generosity to why reaching out to old friends feels harder than it should, we unpack why humans misjudge what will make them happy—and the social fears that hold us back. Along the way, we explore how the work of turning "happiness" into data in the first place not only informs policy but also reveals actionable ways to live more fulfilled, connected lives.

Explore more:

• Lara's Google Scholar page
• Lara's Helping & Happiness lab
• The World Happiness Report
• Statistical appendix to chapter 2 of the World Happiness Report (a.k.a. my favorite data documentation ever!)

Find out more about the show at behindthedatashow.com and more about the host at jonesrooy.com or @jonesrooy on Instagram.

Behind the Data is a podcast that uncovers the hidden stories within the data shaping our world. From political polls to global happiness trackers, we dive into the datasets that influence the decisions we make—while showing you why data isn’t just numbers, but a way to understand the world. Whether you're a data newbie or a seasoned pro, each episode makes complex data approachable, revealing surprising insights and the human side of every dataset. Come for the discoveries, stay for the stories.

We are proud to be part of the Daily Tech News Show network of podcasts.

Subscribe and leave a review!

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to another season of exploring the world through the magical, clarifying, and thought-provoking lens of data! Find us at behindthedatashow.com or wherever you get your podcasts. Find out more about host Andrea Jones-Rooy, Ph.D., at jonesrooy.com or @jonesrooy on Instagram. We will also have a Substack this season (coming soon)!

Behind the Data is a podcast that uncovers the hidden stories within the data shaping our world. From political polls to global happiness trackers, we dive into the datasets that influence the decisions we make—while showing you why data isn’t just numbers, but a way to understand the world. Whether you're a data newbie or a seasoned pro, each episode makes complex data approachable, revealing surprising insights and the human side of every dataset. Come for the discoveries, stay for the stories.

We are proud to be part of the Daily Tech News Show network of podcasts.

Subscribe and leave a review!

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

If you've ever thought your data was hard to get, wait until you hear about shark data. We are joined by shark scientist Jaida Elcock to discuss how she gets data about sharks, why it's so difficult -- and why it's so important that we do so despite the challenges. Whether you're naturally interested in sharks, care about our planet and oceans, or just want to hear a really brilliant person talk about some truly fascinating datasets and the amazing feats she undertakes to collect them -- then you're going to love this conversation.

Join us as we discuss what we know about sharks, and more importantly, frighteningly, and excitingly: the many things we still don't know. Plus: the importance of high-quality snorkel fins, how to get involved in science, and why curiosity and creativity continue to be a scientist's -- and everyone's -- best friend.

Follow Jaida on all the things!

• Instagram: @sofishtication_
• Threads: @sofishtication_
• Bluesky: @sofishtication.bsky.social
• X: @soFISHtication
• YouTube: @soFISHtication_

Follow Minorities in Shark Sciences (MISS), get involved, and support if you can at https://www.misselasmo.org/ and @miss_elasmo on Instagram.

Here are some cool shark videos, per Jaida's search recommendations at the end of the show! I picked these particular videos, but you really can't go wrong watching most videos that show up when you search the below terms.

1. Basking shark breaching
2. Thresher shark tail whip
3. Goblin shark bite

Follow Andrea at @jonesrooy on Instagram and at https://www.jonesrooy.com/.

Behind the Data is a podcast that uncovers the hidden stories within the data shaping our world. From political polls to global happiness trackers, we dive into the datasets that influence the decisions we make—while showing you why data isn’t just numbers, but a way to understand the world. Whether you're a data newbie or a seasoned pro, each episode makes complex data approachable, revealing surprising insights and the human side of every dataset. Come for the discoveries, stay for the stories.

We are proud to be part of the Daily Tech News Show network of podcasts.

Subscribe and leave a review!

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

When we think about advances in medicine, most of us probably first picture lab coats and fancy equipment -- but as our guest, biologist Jaap de Roode, author of the extraordinary new book Doctors by Nature: How Ants, Apes, and Other Animals Heal Themselves shares, sometimes big discoveries (in medicine and beyond!) can come from looking for data in surprising new places.

Join us for a fascinating conversation about how animals in the wild use medicine, such as plants in their environments, why this is so important to understand, and how we can all make more discoveries by starting from a place of wonder, curiosity, and open-mindedness. Plus: extremely fun animal facts!!

Follow Jaap at @jaapderoode on Instagram, and be sure to buy his book, Doctors by Nature: How Ants, Apes, and Other Animals Heal Themselves !

Host Andrea Jones-Rooy is @jonesrooy on Instagram and at www.jonesrooy.com.

Behind the Data is a podcast that uncovers the hidden stories within the data shaping our world. From political polls to global happiness trackers, we dive into the datasets that influence the decisions we make—while showing you why data isn’t just numbers, but a way to understand the world. Whether you're a data newbie or a seasoned pro, each episode makes complex data approachable, revealing surprising insights and the human side of every dataset. Come for the discoveries, stay for the stories.

We are proud to be part of the Daily Tech News Show network of podcasts.

Subscribe and leave a review!

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Vasant Dhar has been working on AI since way before it was cool (and before most people thought it was possible). I've admired his work for a long time and since I started this show have wanted to have him on as a guest to talk about the strengths and limitations of LLMs. A few days ago, he published an article in The Hill about how DOGE is using AI wrong, and I knew I had to talk to him immediately.

We discuss, indeed, what DOGE is doing wrong, as well as the broader lessons we all can learn from this example about what makes a good vs. not-so-good use case for LLMs. We also talk about his recent and completely earth-shattering Severance-esque research where he and a colleague create a bot with the goal of simulating the valuation reasoning of investing legend Aswath Damodaran. Naturally, throughout the conversation, I pepper him with questions about how scared or optimistic we should be about all of this, as well as how AI can somehow be both incredible and limited at the same time.

Follow Vasant!

• Vasant's (excellent!) Brave New World podcast: http://bravenewpodcast.com/
• Vasant's substack: https://vasantdhar.substack.com/
• Vasant's article: "DOGE is using AI the wrong way."
• Vasant's recent paper: "DBOT: Artificial intelligence for systematic long-term investing"

I'm @jonesrooy on Instagram and at jonesrooy.com.

And, because I'm trying to make friends with AI, below is a chapter summary! Woo hoo.

Chapters

00:00 The Evolution of AI: A Personal Journey

01:49 Understanding LLMs: Are They Thinking?

04:35 The Fear of AI: Balancing Optimism and Caution

06:57 Explaining LLMs to Newcomers

09:37 Learning and The Integration of the Senses

12:24 DOGE's Approach to AI in Government

15:22 The Need for Better AI Implementation in Government

17:47 Could This Actually Work?

20:16 A Problem with Using AI on Data from Humans

21:47 Contextualizing Project Failures

22:33 Applying AI to Investing

23:45 Building an AI Investor

27:36 The Science of Long-Term Investing

28:40 Simulating Expertise: The Damodaran Bot

32:33 The Art of Questioning in AI

36:07 Expectations and Realities of AI Development

40:10 Be the AI Change You Wish to See in the World

Behind the Data is a podcast that uncovers the hidden stories within the data shaping our world. From political polls to global happiness trackers, we dive into the datasets that influence the decisions we make—while showing you why data isn’t just numbers, but a way to understand the world. Whether you're a data newbie or a seasoned pro, each episode makes complex data approachable, revealing surprising insights and the human side of every dataset. Come for the discoveries, stay for the stories.

We are proud to be part of the Daily Tech News Show network of podcasts.

Subscribe and leave a review!

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.