What if we stopped trying to win or avoid conflict—and instead built the resilience to grow through it? In this episode, neurologist Joel Salinas and conflict resolution expert Bob Bordone offer a powerful reframe on disagreement, showing how neuroscience and self-awareness can help us break old patterns and build stronger relationships.

[0:00] BG Special Announcement!

[1:15] Intro and Speed Round with Joel and Bob

[6:29] What is Conflict Resilience?

[10:41] The Neuroscience Behind Conflict

[18:35] Understanding Our Reflexive Conflict Responses

[25:03] Practical Applications and Examples

[32:15] Neuroplasticity and Changing How We Handle Disagreement

[42:15] Building a Culture of Conflict Resilience at Work

[49:45] Dolly Parton: A Model for Growth?

[53:15] Desert Island Music Picks

[55:15] Grooving Session: Conflict Resilience at Work and Beyond

©2025 Behavioral Grooves

Conflict Resilience: Negotiating Disagreement Without Giving Up or Giving In

More About Joel Salinas

More About Bob Bordone

Join the Behavioral Grooves community

Subscribe to Behavioral Grooves on YouTube

Lady Gaga - Abracadabra

Billie Eilish - Birds of a Feather

Philip Glass - Prophecies

Kelly Clarkson - Because of You

In this special republish episode science journalist David McRaney joins us to explore the surprising science behind belief, persuasion, and why minds change. We discuss tribal truth, perceptual differences (remember the dress?), and why Step Zero—examining why you want to change someone’s mind—is essential for meaningful dialogue.

[4:18] Welcome and speed round questions.

[11:18] How minds change vs. how to change minds.

[14:35] How is elaboration different from learning?

[27:27] Mini Grooving Session on the difference between beliefs, opinions and attitudes.

[34:09] Why do you want to change someone’s mind?

[41:03] The moment David realized he should question why, not just how to change minds.

[52:55] Mini Grooving Session on why to change minds.

[57:27] Why some see the dress as gold & white and some see it as blue & black.

[1:18:28] Mini Grooving Session on the dress and the crocs.

[1:22:15] Truth is tribal.

[1:35:33] Mini Grooving Session on having a social safety net.

[1:40:38] What was the catalyst for David becoming interested in conspiracy theories?

[1:46:19] How to get people off the conspiratorial loop?

[1:51:23] What musical artists would David take to a desert island?

©2025 Behavioral Grooves

How Minds Change: The Surprising Science of Belief, Opinion, and Persuasion by David McRaney

More on David McRaney

You Are Not So Smart Podcast

Wallisch, Pascal & Karlovich, Michael. (2019). Disagreeing about Crocs and socks: Creating profoundly ambiguous color displays

The dress

Join the Behavioral Grooves community

Subscribe to Behavioral Grooves on YouTube

Radiohead - No Surprises

Colin Stetson - Spindrift

Kweilin Ellingrud, McKinsey’s Global Chief of Diversity and Inclusion, joins us to discuss The Broken Rung—the missed first promotion that derails many women's careers before they even begin. She shares how to build “experience capital,” why soft skills matter more than we think, and how the right first moves can lead to long-term equity and empowerment. With practical advice for women and leaders alike, this episode is a call to action to fix the ladder from the bottom up.

[0:00] Intro and Speed Round with Kweilin Ellingrud

[5:39] What is the “Broken Rung”?

[12:00] Strategies for Overcoming the Broken Rung

[20:36] Building Skills to Future-Proof Careers

[30:39] Addressing Biases and Cognitive Biases

[35:47] Personal Health and Financial Well-being

[41:10] Desert Island Music

[43:19] Grooving Session - Networking, Bias, and Building Experience Capital

©2025 Behavioral Grooves

The Broken Rung - by Kweilin Ellingrud, Lareina Yee, and Mareia del Mar Martinez

More About Kweilin

Join the Behavioral Grooves community

Subscribe to Behavioral Grooves on YouTube

Shakira - La Tortura

Ed Sheeran - Shape of You

Dr. Rosalind Chow joins us to explore how status, power, and perspective shape what we view as “reasonable”—and why marginalized voices are often held to a different standard. From stalled DEI efforts to the illusion of objectivity among dominant groups, Rosalind challenges us to rethink who gets to define what counts as change.

[0:00] Intro and Speed Round

[6:26] The difference between sponsorship and mentorship

[10:13] Why corporate relationships are important

[16:05] Why DEI efforts often stall

[27:00] The moral cost of assimilations

[31:20] Well-meaning allies

[46:56] Desert Island music

[50:15] Grooving Session - The importance of Mentorship

©2025 Behavioral Grooves

About Rosalind Chow

The Doors You Can Open - by Rosalind Chow

The Social Psychology of Inequality - CUNY Graduate Center

Join the Behavioral Grooves community

Subscribe to Behavioral Grooves on YouTube

Rent - La Vie Boheme

Beatles - Revolution

Neuroscientist Richard Cytowic takes us on a journey through the world of synesthesia and how it reveals the fascinating ways our brains interpret reality. But that’s just the beginning. We dive into the challenges of our Stone Age brains in the digital age, busting the multitasking myth, exploring the cognitive costs of social media, and discovering why silence and imagination are more crucial than ever. Tune in to reclaim your focus and rethink your relationship with technology.

©2025 Behavioral Grooves

[0:00] Intro: Synesthesia and Richard Cytowic

[4:11] Speed Round: Nature vs Nurture?

[10:06] Social Media - Necessary evil?

[17:52] The myth of multitasking

[28:54] The importance of boredom

[37:06] Why silence is essential

[45:32] Emotional intelligence and resilience

[52:31] Grooving Session: Digital media, mental health, and what lies ahead

©2025 Behavioral Grooves

Your Stone Age Brain in the Screen Age

About Richard Cytowic

Synesthesia

The Shallows by Nicholas Carr

Join the Behavioral Grooves community

Subscribe to Behavioral Grooves on YouTube

Babbling Brook - Background Noise for Work

Forest and River Sounds - Relaxing Background Noise

Creativity isn’t reserved for the select few—it’s in all of us. This episode explores the science behind innovation with experts Matt Arnold and Adam Hansen, uncovering why we doubt our creative abilities and how to overcome the cognitive barriers that stifle new ideas. From breaking free of negativity bias to embedding innovation into workplace culture, this conversation is packed with insights to help you unlock your full creative potential.

©2025 Behavioral Grooves

[0:00] Introduction - Are We Natural Innovators?

[6:57] What Blocks Innovations

[12:28] The Power of Brain Breaks

[19:34] Leadership and Fostering Innovation

[29:44] The Interaction of Behavioral Science and Innovation

[40:20] Practical Tips to Foster Creativity

[49:10] How Organizations Can Utilize Innovation

[58:15] How to Overcome Negativity and Bias in Brainstorming

[1:08:09] Innovation Challenges at Big Companines

[1:17:00] Psychological Safety in Innovation

[1:34:45] Why Businesses Struggle with Long-Term Innovation

[1:42:15] Practical Steps for Bringing Innovation to Work

[1:47:30] Grooving Session: Innovation, Science, and How to Manage

©2025 Behavioral Grooves

Contact Matt Arnold

Contact Adam Hansen

How to Write One Song by Jeff Tweedy Orbiting the Giant Hairball by Gordon Mackenzie Predictably Irrational by Dan Ariely

Join the Behavioral Grooves community

Subscribe to Behavioral Grooves on YouTube

Billie Holiday - Blue Moon

Woody Guthrie - Tear the Fascist Down

It’s about time we put Kurt and Tim in the hot seat! This week, we’re turning the tables and making them answer your questions. Pulling from our recent listener survey, they sit down with their producer to tackle everything from the making of Behavioral Grooves to insights on behavioral science—and, of course, the all-important question of what they’d do with a hippo-sized corgi. Tune in for a fun, behind-the-scenes bonus episode!

Check out our YouTube for a video version of this episode!

[0:00] New to BG - Ask Us Anything!

[2:03] How Kurt and Tim Met

[4:24] Inspiration to Join Behavioral Science

[8:08] Behavioral Grooves’ Origin Story

[19:28] Behavioral Science Myths and Misconceptions

[30:04] Adopting Behavioral Science in Workplaces

[43:15] Fields That Need Behavioral Science

[47:34] Rhino or Corgi?

Fill out this survey for a chance to be featured on our next AMA!

Dr. Steve Heine, cultural psychologist and author of Start Making Sense, joins us to explore the psychology of meaning. We discuss the four essential connections that shape a fulfilling life, why existential anxiety is on the rise, and how nostalgic reflection and storytelling help us make sense of our experiences. Plus, we dive into his “meaning audit” tool—a practical way to strengthen purpose and connection.

[0:00] Intro - Did Kurt take a psychology class?

[5:24] Speed Round with Dr. Steve Heine

[8:54] Was Sisyphus actually happy?

[10:37] The importance of process over destination

[19:48] Cultural differences in meaning-making

[25:10] Why we rationalize our life choices

[31:17] How storytelling shapes our identity

[42:46] Practical tips for building a meaningful life

[48:42] Grooving session: Building community and connecting with each other

©2025 Behavioral Grooves

Start Making Sense by Dr. Steve Heine

More about Dr. Steve Heine

Joseph Campbell's The Hero’s Journey

Join the Behavioral Grooves community

Subscribe to Behavioral Grooves on YouTube

Talking Heads - Once in a Lifetime

The Beatles - Don’t Let Me Down