Episodios

  • Season 1 Wrap-Up + Sneak Peek of Season 2: Be Brave, Be Badass

    Season 1 Wrap-Up + Sneak Peek of Season 2: Be Brave, Be Badass
    Dec 22 2025

    About This Episode

    Season 1 of the Badass Leaders Podcast comes to a close with a heartfelt wrap-up episode from host Angela Gill Nelms. After nearly 50 episodes exploring leadership, grit, and bold action, Angela reflects on the season, thanks listeners for their support, and shares what's next.

    In this episode, you'll hear about:

    • The lessons learned from a year of interviewing extraordinary leaders.

    • Why saying "yes" to the right opportunities is crucial for personal and professional growth.

    • Angela's insights on breaking toxic sales stereotypes and fostering high-performing, purpose-driven teams.

    • The power of failure in entrepreneurship and how it shapes resilience, transformation, and long-term success.

    • A sneak peek at Season 2, featuring listener-sourced questions and stories of "badass humans" who inspire courage, authenticity, and impact.

    Whether you're a leader, entrepreneur, or simply looking for inspiration to push boundaries, this episode is a must-listen before the new season kicks off.

    Produced by: The AGN Group

    Host: Angela Gill Nelms

    Producer: Katie Hart

    Tagline: Be Brave. Be Badass.

    Websites: www.theagngroup.com and www.AngelaGillNelms.com

    About The AGN Group:

    At The AGN Group, we believe every individual, team, and company can unlock their inner badass, one brave step at a time. www.TheAGNGroup.com.

    Social Media Channels:

    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/badassleaderspodcast/

    Twitter: https://x.com/BALeadersPod

    TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@baleaderspod

    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/badass-leaders-podcast2

    Want to be a Podcast Guest?

    If you are interested in being a guest on the podcast, email brave@angelagillnelms.com.
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    7 m
  • What Leaders Get Wrong About Creativity — And How to Fix It | Corean Canty

    What Leaders Get Wrong About Creativity — And How to Fix It | Corean Canty
    Dec 17 2025
    This episode dives into the real, often unspoken emotional terrain of caregiving, leadership burnout, and reclaiming joy at work through the power of play. Angela sits down with Corean Canty, a former media and advertising COO turned executive coach, TEDx speaker coach, and co-founder of Shift to Play. Together, they unpack how anticipatory grief affects caregivers, why so many leaders lose their sense of self, and how play can rebuild creativity, resilience, and connection at work. You'll hear Corean's personal journey through corporate burnout, caring for her mother with dementia, rediscovering her voice, and helping leaders stop performing the "should self" and step back into authenticity. The conversation also tackles questions many people quietly Google but rarely discuss openly: The discussion also tackles questions such as: What is anticipatory grief and how do you cope with it as a caregiver? How do you know you're burning out before your body forces you to stop? What does play actually do to your brain and why does it matter at work? How can you become a better storyteller even if you don't think you're creative? What's the difference between managing and leading in today's workplace? How do you resolve conflict when everyone's stuck in their assumptions? How do you find your true voice if you've spent years being who you "should" be? This episode is part inspiration, part strategy, part wake-up call. Expect honesty, vulnerability, and real-world tools you can use immediately. Learn More About Corean: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/coreancanty/?hl=en LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/coreancanty/ Website: https://coreancanty.com/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@CoreanCanty Podcast: https://coreancanty.com/podcast/ Mentioned in this Episode: Shift to Play (Corean's company): https://shifttoplay.com/ Speak More Human (Corean's storytelling/voice coaching work): https://speakmorehuman.com/ Corean's TEDx Talks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEiRT2Rr6ME Elizabeth Gilbert's Big Magic: https://www.elizabethgilbert.com/books/big-magic/ Produced by: The AGN Group Host: Angela Gill Nelms Producer: Katie Hart Tagline: Be Brave. Be Badass. Websites: www.theagngroup.com and www.AngelaGillNelms.com About The AGN Group: At The AGN Group, we believe every individual, team, and company can unlock their inner badass, one brave step at a time. www.TheAGNGroup.com. Social Media Channels: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/badassleaderspodcast/ Twitter: https://x.com/BALeadersPod TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@baleaderspod LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/badass-leaders-podcast2 Want to be a Podcast Guest? If you are interested in being a guest on the podcast, email brave@angelagillnelms.com. Key Takeaways: Anticipatory grief is real and often hits caregivers long before a loved one passes. Burnout doesn't start in the workplace — it shows up in the body first. If you're overriding your own needs, your body will eventually force the pause. Play is not childish — it's neuroscience. It improves creativity, problem-solving, communication, and bonding within teams. Authenticity beats performance. Most people operate from their "should voice," not their real one. Storytelling is a leadership tool, not a trend. Humans understand meaning through stories more than data. Conflict stays stuck when everyone is clinging to assumptions. Curiosity is the exit ramp. Leaders aren't defined by title. Leadership happens anywhere someone is willing to speak vision, ask bold questions, and take the first step. You can't lead well if you're not living well. Life design and leadership design are inseparable. Themes: Caregiving and anticipatory grief Leadership burnout and well-being Play as a professional development tool Creativity and innovation in the age of AI Storytelling as communication strategy Authenticity, identity, and voice Conflict resolution and curiosity Personal reinvention and life design
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    1 h y 16 m
  • How to Raise Strong Girls in a Messy World: Mental Health, Boundaries & Body Image | Kate Rope

    How to Raise Strong Girls in a Messy World: Mental Health, Boundaries & Body Image | Kate Rope
    Dec 10 2025
    In this episode of the Badass Leaders Podcast, journalist and author Kate Rope shares the untold story behind her career, her mission to help us all feel strong as humans, and the personal experiences that shaped her bestselling books Strong as a Mother and the forthcoming Strong as a Girl. Kate opens up about what she learned from investigating sexual harassment cases, supporting women and girls inside complex health systems, leading editorial teams, and navigating her own medically challenging pregnancy and postpartum anxiety. The discussion also tackles questions listeners often search for: How do you handle conflict resolution as a leader or caregiver?How do you raise confident girls who trust their own voice?How do you help kids manage anxiety, anger, or big emotions?How do parents support a child struggling with body image or eating disorders?How can caregivers model assertiveness, boundaries, and emotional intelligence?How do we teach girls to say no, manage friendships, and avoid people-pleasing? Kate brings real-world examples from her journalism career, her interviews with girls across the country, and her own lived experiences as a mother and mental-health advocate. This conversation is a strategic guide for parents, leaders, educators, and anyone committed to raising the next generation of strong, self-aware young women. Learn More About Kate Rope: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/authorkateropeInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/kateropewriter/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kate-rope-88042065/Website: https://katerope.com/Book: https://bookshop.org/p/books/strong-as-a-girl-your-guide-to-raising-girls-who-know-stand-up-for-and-take-care-of-themselves-kate-rope/b5a4823fa81ccd85?ean=9781250904775&next=t&next=t%2Ct Substack: https://katerope.substack.com/ Mentioned in this Episode: Strong as a Mother: How to Be Happy, Healthy, and (Most Importantly) Sane From Pregnancy to ParenthoodStrong as a Girl: Your Guide to Raising Girls Who Know, Stand Up for, and Take Care of ThemselvesBrian Rowe's interview on the Badass Leaders Podcast: https://youtu.be/sMWZ5bhTZ0M?si=y5tzoH6t4AnNoiga RAN's interview about eating disorders: https://youtu.be/JH5PiBB6wBw?si=xcpwsLtCNGJKK5kM Produced by: The AGN Group Host: Angela Gill Nelms Producer: Katie Hart Tagline: Be Brave. Be Badass. Websites: www.theagngroup.com and www.AngelaGillNelms.com About The AGN Group: At The AGN Group, we believe every individual, team, and company can unlock their inner badass, one brave step at a time. www.TheAGNGroup.com. Social Media Channels: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/badassleaderspodcast/Twitter: https://x.com/BALeadersPodTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@baleaderspodLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/badass-leaders-podcast2 Want to be a Podcast Guest? If you are interested in being a guest on the podcast, email brave@angelagillnelms.com. Key Takeaways: Girls already possess intuitive wisdom—the job of caregivers and leaders is to help them hear it, not override it.Listening is a leadership skill, whether you're guiding a team or supporting a child through a difficult moment.People-pleasing is learned early, and girls are often taught to accommodate before they're taught to self-advocate."No" is a complete sentence, and learning it young prevents burnout, toxic relationships, and career stagnation later.Early conversations matter—teaching boundaries, assertiveness, and emotional awareness at age six makes adolescence easier.Conflict resolution requires pausing and asking more questions, not rushing to fix things.Eating disorders are often misunderstood, and early intervention is essential—they're metabolic and biological, not simply psychological.Caregivers need support too—your own healing and emotional intelligence directly influence the young people you lead.Leaders and parents should prioritize repair over perfection. Mistakes are part of the process. What you do afterward matters more. Themes: Raising resilient and confident girlsEmotional intelligence for kids and caregiversLeadership through listening rather than controlBoundary-setting and assertive communicationRejecting people-pleasing and perfectionismMental health in childhood and adolescenceEating disorders, body image, and early warning signsThe intersection of caregiving and leadershipStorytelling as a tool for human connectionStrength, self-trust, and navigating difficult emotions
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    1 h y 19 m
  • Real Stories, Real Leadership: Georgia Tech Alumni

    Real Stories, Real Leadership: Georgia Tech Alumni
    Dec 3 2025
    Real Stories, Real Leadership: Georgia Tech Alumni This episode features a deep, surprisingly personal conversation with two Georgia Tech powerhouses whose careers span biomedical engineering, venture investing, university leadership, and global innovation. They unpack what it looks like to build teams that solve real-world problems, how diversity fuels breakthrough ideas, and why Georgia Tech became a national model for AI adoption long before most institutions were ready. Watch Full Interviews Here: Angela & Gia: https://youtu.be/vh69c_f4Sv8?si=_lP7WQOfiSV_5IqkBeth: https://youtu.be/JXrICZjyhec?si=hdmHm8jvCMJOHh6yCathleen: https://youtu.be/A1FVVQ1hmi4?si=wCqhllwwK5okpp5bEric: https://youtu.be/mMCg-aW8eoQ?si=_zfZeRfn595LBGlPKofi: https://youtu.be/5CKPG7nfwww?si=R8nOvyLBB54jloSONassir: https://youtu.be/ex1hDKRPrxg?si=JpImeGf_15aKZnrOSherry: https://youtu.be/lrFVN8oN0g0?si=YqcI2RLK2JLU-duyRaheem: https://youtu.be/qab7tPVmWng?si=xsYz-g956wRPNzoh Mentioned in This Episode Georgia Tech: https://www.gatech.edu/Emory University: https://www.emory.edu/home/index.htmlBiolocity: https://biolocity.gatech.edu/Emory BioFoundry: https://www.ebfi.org/Children's Healthcare of Atlanta: https://www.choa.org/Georgia Tech AI Maker Space: https://coe.gatech.edu/academics/ai-for-engineering/ai-makerspaceShawn Jones, Georgia Tech Quarterback: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shawn_Jones_(gridiron_football)#:~:text=Jones%20is%20arguably%20one%20of,4%20years%20of%20collegiate%20play.Wayne Clough, former Georgia Tech President: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._Wayne_Clough The discussion also tackles questions people often search for, including: How does Georgia Tech approach AI in admissions and engineering education?What makes biomedical engineering at Georgia Tech and Emory so influential?How do major universities build a culture of innovation instead of bureaucracy?What does "return on investment" really mean in early-stage healthtech and translational science?How can diversity and inclusion directly improve engineering and research outcomesHow do leaders manage autonomy, accountability, and innovation at large institutions? Key Takeaways Georgia Tech's early, unapologetic commitment to AI wasn't a gamble — it was a strategic pivot that's now shaping national standards.True innovation requires proximity: engineers belong in ICUs, clinicians belong in labs, and teams must literally see each other's world.Diversity isn't a slogan here. It shows up as better problem framing, richer solutions, and expanded opportunity.Return on investment in academic innovation isn't just dollars — it's follow-on funding, regulatory milestones, and the long-term shaping of founders and researchers.Autonomy is essential. Leaders who expect innovation must give people room to own decisions and be accountable for them.The Georgia Tech–Emory ecosystem works because it prioritizes translation over theory; projects move, pivot, or end quickly.Exposure changes trajectories. A single visit to campus, a commencement speech, or a STEM Saturday can alter how someone sees their future. Themes Innovation culture inside major research institutionsDiversity as a driver of engineering and scientific breakthroughsAI adoption and ethics in higher educationTranslational science and commercialization in healthcareLeadership, autonomy, and accountability at scaleResilience, reinvention, and nontraditional career pathsThe power of community impact and early exposure to STEM Produced by: The AGN Group, Host: Angela Gill Nelms, Producer: Katie Hart Tagline: Be Brave. Be Badass. Websites: www.theagngroup.com and www.AngelaGillNelms.com About The AGN Group: At The AGN Group, we believe every individual, team, and company can unlock their inner badass, one brave step at a time. www.TheAGNGroup.com. Social Media Channels: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/badassleaderspodcast/ Twitter: https://x.com/BALeadersPod TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@baleaderspod LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/badass-leaders-podcast2 Want to be a Podcast Guest? If you are interested in being a guest on the podcast, email brave@badassleaderspodcast.com
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    40 m
  • Leaving the 80-Hour Grind for a Life You Actually Want | Ed Morgan

    Leaving the 80-Hour Grind for a Life You Actually Want | Ed Morgan
    Nov 26 2025

    Edward "Bean" Morgan joins the Badass Leaders Podcast for a candid conversation about leadership, burnout, and what it takes to walk away from a career that no longer aligns with your values. After decades in the restaurant and hospitality industry, working 80 to 90 hours a week with little recognition, Ed made a dramatic pivot into beekeeping. Today he manages more than 100 hives across Atlanta, teaches hands-on beekeeping classes, and mentors the next generation of beekeepers and entrepreneurs.

    This episode explores how Ed built a thriving business from scratch, how he found his voice as a leader, and the lessons he now applies to business growth, community building, and resilient decision-making. His story is a blueprint for anyone ready to change direction, reclaim their time, and lead on their own terms.

    The discussion also tackles questions such as:

    • What is the difference between a leader and a manager?
    • How do you recognize burnout before it derails your wellbeing?
    • How do you pivot careers when you have a mortgage, a family, and no safety net?
    • What can beekeeping teach us about leadership, communication, and teamwork?
    • How do you navigate toxic work environments and advocate for yourself?
    • What does conflict resolution look like when you're responsible for people, operations, and outcomes?

    Learn More About Ed Morgan:

    • Facebook: Edward "Bean" Morgan,
    • Instagram: Atlanta Bee Company
    • LinkedIn: Edward Morgan
    • Website: Beansbeesandhoney.com
    • Airbnb experience: https://www.airbnb.com/experiences/279263

    Mentioned in this Episode:

    • Don "The Fat Bee Man": https://www.youtube.com/@fineshooter
    • Georgia Beekeepers Association: https://gabeekeeping.com/
    • Metro Atlanta Beekeepers: https://metroatlantabeekeepers.org/
    Themes
    • Leadership vs. management
    • Career reinvention
    • Burnout and wellbeing
    • Entrepreneurship and business building
    • Authenticity and self-advocacy
    • Mentorship and community
    • Beekeeping as a leadership model
    • Conflict resolution and communication
    • Diversity, identity, and navigating inequitable work environment

    Produced by: The AGN Group

    Host: Angela Gill Nelms

    Producer: Katie Hart

    Tagline: Be Brave. Be Badass.

    Websites: www.theagngroup.com and www.AngelaGillNelms.com

    About The AGN Group:

    At The AGN Group, we believe every individual, team, and company can unlock their inner badass, one brave step at a time. www.TheAGNGroup.com.

    Social Media Channels:

    • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/badassleaderspodcast/
    • Twitter: https://x.com/BALeadersPod
    • TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@baleaderspod
    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/badass-leaders-podcast2

    Want to be a Podcast Guest?

    If you are interested in being a guest on the podcast, email brave@angelagillnelms.com.
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    1 h y 46 m
  • From the Yankees to Flea Markets—The Leadership Lessons No One Expects | Dr. John Tuders

    From the Yankees to Flea Markets—The Leadership Lessons No One Expects | Dr. John Tuders
    Nov 19 2025

    In this episode, Dr. John Tuders breaks down what it truly means to lead with courage, clarity, and integrity in a world that often rewards shortcuts. He shares the lessons that shaped him, from growing up in Queens to becoming a professor and trusted voice in leadership. You'll hear real stories, practical insights, and a grounded perspective on trust, culture, conflict, and personal growth. If you're serious about becoming a stronger, more self-aware leader, this conversation will push you in all the right ways.

    Questions answered during this conversation:

    1. What is the real difference between a leader and a manager?
    2. How do you build trust in a way that actually influences people?
    3. Why does culture matter more than strategy when scaling a team?
    4. How should leaders approach conflict resolution without damaging relationships?
    5. What role do values play in modern leadership, and why do they matter?
    6. How can leaders stay authentic while still driving performance and accountability?
    7. What does it take to become a more self-aware, human-centered leader?
    8. How can leaders grow personally and professionally without losing who they are?

    Learn More About Dr. John Tuders:

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-john-tuders-dba-7b164a20/

    Mentioned in this Episode:

    • Kristi's episode: https://youtu.be/_beumKc6pDI?si=3OQ5fXDB5eDdmXXR
    • Raheem's episode: https://youtu.be/qab7tPVmWng?si=g3KXAxtppBkDurq0
    • Anne Chow's episode: https://youtu.be/JrgdCCOwkG0?si=LafOxR7Y3QZWwhel
    • Enneagram: https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/how-the-enneagram-system-works/
    • Radical Candor by Kim Scott: https://www.radicalcandor.com/
    • The Making of a Manager by Julie Zhuo: https://www.juliezhuo.com/book/manager.html
    • Uncommon by Tony Dungy: https://www.amazon.com/Uncommon-Finding-Your-Path-Significance/dp/1414326823
    • Relational Intelligence by Dharius Daniels: https://dhariusdaniels.com/rq/
    • Boundaries by Henry Cloud andJohn Townsend: https://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-Updated-Expanded-When-Control/dp/0310351804

    Produced by: The AGN Group

    Host: Angela Gill Nelms

    Producer: Katie Hart

    Tagline: Be Brave. Be Badass.

    Websites: www.theagngroup.com and www.AngelaGillNelms.com

    About The AGN Group:

    At The AGN Group, we believe every individual, team, and company can unlock their inner badass, one brave step at a time. www.TheAGNGroup.com.

    Social Media Channels:

    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/badassleaderspodcast/

    Twitter: https://x.com/BALeadersPod

    TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@baleaderspod

    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/badass-leaders-podcast2

    Want to be a Podcast Guest?

    If you are interested in being a guest on the podcast, email brave@angelagillnelms.com.
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    1 h y 27 m
  • AI in Higher Education: Lessons from Georgia Tech | Raheem Beyah

    AI in Higher Education: Lessons from Georgia Tech | Raheem Beyah
    Nov 12 2025

    In this episode of Badass Leaders, Raheem Beyah, Georgia Tech's Provost and Executive Vice President for Academic Affairs joins Angela to talk about innovation, mentorship, and the evolution of leadership in higher education. Born and raised in Atlanta, Raheem shares how his grandmother's biscuits and a childhood love of video games first sparked his curiosity for technology—and how that curiosity became a lifelong mission to empower others through education and innovation.

    From Georgia Tech's groundbreaking AI Makerspace to national initiatives in cybersecurity and access to STEM education, Raheem reveals what it takes to lead at scale without losing sight of people. Listeners will walk away with fresh insights on resilience, mentorship, and building legacy through service, integrity, and human connection.

    Topics Covered

    • The story behind how biscuits and video games shaped Raheem's early path

    • What the Atlanta Public Schools taught him about resilience and purpose

    • The difference between a leader and a manager—and when to be both

    • How to approach conflict with empathy and strategy

    • Building cultures of trust, innovation, and accountability in large organizations

    • The vision behind Georgia Tech's AI Makerspace and AI-driven education

    • Why mentorship and access remain the cornerstones of true leadership

    • What "leaving a legacy" really means in higher education

    Learn More About Raheem Beyah:

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/raheem-beyah/

    • https://ece.gatech.edu/directory/raheem-beyah

    Mentioned in this Episode:

    • Holy Shift: Biomedical Breakthroughs Shaping Tomorrow: https://holyshiftresearch.transistor.fm/

    • AI Makerspace at Georgia Tech: https://coe.gatech.edu/academics/ai-for-engineering/ai-makerspace

    • Bud Moeller's episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMA1L2B5xsM&t=179s

    • Building Your A-Team blog: https://www.angelagillnelms.com/building-your-a-team/

    Produced by: The AGN Group

    Host: Angela Gill Nelms

    Producer: Katie Hart

    Tagline: Be Brave. Be Badass.

    Websites: www.theagngroup.com and www.AngelaGillNelms.com

    About The AGN Group:

    At The AGN Group, we believe every individual, team, and company can unlock their inner badass, one brave step at a time. www.TheAGNGroup.com.

    Social Media Channels:

    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/badassleaderspodcast/

    Twitter: https://x.com/BALeadersPod

    TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@baleaderspod

    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/badass-leaders-podcast2

    Want to be a Podcast Guest?

    If you are interested in being a guest on the podcast, email brave@angelagillnelms.com.
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    1 h y 18 m
  • Badass Best of: How to Leave a Legacy That Lasts

    Badass Best of: How to Leave a Legacy That Lasts
    Nov 5 2025

    What does it really mean to leave a legacy? In this Badass Leaders Podcast "Best Of" episode, we bring together powerful insights from leaders who are redefining what impact looks like.

    Together, these guests offer perspectives that challenge traditional ideas of success and invite us to think bigger about purpose, service, and the mark we leave behind.

    If you're ready to build something that lasts longer than your title or tenure, this episode is for you.

    Tune in to explore:

    • How today's leaders define and live their legacies

    • Why gratitude and service are at the heart of lasting impact

    • Practical ways to lead with purpose—starting now

    Learn more from these guests by watching their full episodes:

    • Aimee Christian: https://youtu.be/Ukjz6NJJfUI?si=rMg0FeYDdRY8SZu9

    • Andrew Dingee: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eR-ui05Or0&t=15s

    • Bud Moeller: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMA1L2B5xsM&t=142s

    • Caitlin Johnson: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VX8VIcCiaZA

    • Gia Ganesh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh69c_f4Sv8&t=33s

    • Karen Valencic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8X2S2-8vQI&t=2949s

    • Dr. Kofi Smith: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CKPG7nfwww&t=12s

    • Dr. John Tuders: Coming out soon!

    Produced by: The AGN Group

    Host: Angela Gill Nelms

    Producer: Katie Hart

    Tagline: Be Brave. Be Badass.

    Websites: www.theagngroup.com and www.AngelaGillNelms.com

    About The AGN Group:
    At The AGN Group, we believe every individual, team, and company can unlock their inner badass, one brave step at a time. www.TheAGNGroup.com.

    Social Media Channels:
    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/badassleaderspodcast/
    Twitter: https://x.com/BALeadersPod
    TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@baleaderspod
    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/badass-leaders-podcast2

    Want to be a Podcast Guest?
    If you are interested in being a guest on the podcast, email brave@angelagillnelms.com.
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    20 m