How would a Christian answer the Euthyphro dilemma? Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Dcn. Harrison Garlick is joined by Dr. Donald Prudlo, the Warren Professor of Catholic Studies at the University of Tulsa, to discuss Aquinas and the Euthyphro dilemma.

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Also, check our Dr. Prudlo's new books:

Governing Perfection (2024) - "In the beginning, God administrated." For as Donald Prudlo observes, "There can be no achievement without administration." In this book he seeks to restore the idea that while administration is necessary even in the institutional Church, holiness is not only possible for those charged with governance, but is a fulfillment and type of Christus Rector omnium, or "Christ, Ruler of all.

Merchant Saint: The Church, the Market, and the First Lay Canonization (2025) - Paul Voss and Donald Prudlo trace Western attitudes to money, merchants, and the market through 3,000 years of history. They focus their attention on one person in particular, Omobono of Cremona (1117–1197), as an axial figure in the wholesale reappraisal of the value of business, entrepreneurship, and white-collar work in Christian Europe.

In this conversation, Deacon Harrison Garlick and Dr. Donald Prudlo delve into the Euthyphro dilemma, exploring its implications in both a polytheistic and monotheistic context. They discuss the importance of humor in philosophy, the historical context of Plato's works, and the relevance of the Euthyphro dilemma in modern culture. The dialogue emphasizes the need for a realist metaphysic and the dangers of a voluntaristic worldview, ultimately highlighting the significance of engaging with great books and philosophical texts to reclaim understanding and truth.

Keywords: Euthyphro Dilemma, Plato, Socratic Method, Philosophy, Monotheism, Aquinas, Realism, Volunteerism, Great Books

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Check out THE ASCENT for articles on Christian spirituality.

In this episode of the Ascend the Great Books podcast, Deacon Harrison Garlick and guests delve into the complexities of Plato's Euthyphro, exploring themes of piety, morality, and the divine - including the famous "Euthyphro Dilemma."

The podcast welcomes back Dr. Joey Spencer, who serves as a tutor of theology, an archivist, and an expert in angels and demons.

Check out thegreatbookspodcast.com for our reading schedule and more!

Check out our collection of written guides on the great books!

Check our Part I of the Plato's Euthyphro if you missed it!

From the guide:

What is the Euthyphro Dilemma?

The Euthyphro Dilemma, introduced at 9(d), is the dialogue’s most famous section, where Socrates asks: “Is the pious being loved by the gods because it is pious? Or is it pious because it is being loved by the gods?” It is a question of causality. The first part or “horn” of the dilemma asks whether the pious is something objective loved by the gods, i.e., “is the pious being loved by the gods because it is pious?” The second horn of the dilemma asks whether the pious whatever the gods will, i.e., “or is it pious because it is being loved by the gods?” The two horns are mutually exclusive and present contrary philosophical views: objective versus subjective; or realism versus voluntarism. The Euthyphro dilemma is not reducible to issue of piety but represents a rhetoric template Socrates will have recourse to time and time again to determine whether the definition of a thing is something objective that is discovered or something subjective that is made. For example, the Euthyphro dilemma is often rewritten concerning the good: “Is the good being loved by the gods because it is good? Or is it good because it is being loved by the gods?” It is often written in a monotheistic manner as well: “Is the good being loved by God because it is good? Or is it good because it is being loved by God?”. The Euthyphro dilemma used here ferrets out the nature of piety and the divine, but it represents a greater dilemma that is foundational to human thought: realism versus voluntarism. To wit, is truth discovered or is it made?

What observations may be made about the first horn of the dilemma?

The first horn posits that piety is an objective reality, an independent Idea or Form, and is loved by the gods because of its intrinsic nature. As Deacon explains, piety is good and just in se, and thus the gods love it. The first horn presents a metaphysical reality in which concepts, like piety, have a true, objective universal definition. It represents Plato’s Ideas. Moreover, as Deacon notes, the first horn makes a comment about the divine as well—as the gods do not create piety but rather adhere to it. Like in Antigone, the gods are adhering to law or standard of goodness. Piety’s essence is not contingent on divine approval but is a standard to which the gods conform, as Thomas suggests, pointing to “a universal that stands outside them.” This is significant because it challenges the traditional Homeric view where the divine wills define morality, instead positing that the gods recognize piety’s goodness, as seen in Euthyphro’s earlier intuition that Zeus is “the most just” god, implying a standard of justice above the gods, as Dr. Grabowski notes.

Dr. Spencer comments that the Homeric tradition shows that the gods do not agree or otherwise adhere...

Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, we are joined by Dcn. Garlick, Dr. Frank Grabowski, Thomas Lackey, and Dr. Joey Spencer to discuss the first part of Plato’s Euthyphro—a dialogue on piety.

Dr. Spencer is the diocesan Archivist for the Diocese of Tulsa, a tutor in Theology, and an expert in the theology of angels and demons.

We discuss the context of the dialogue and move into conversations on piety as a political problem, the role of imitating the divine in Greek religion, an introduction to Plato’s Ideas and its reception into Christianity, and even a brief aside on how angels understand Plato’s Ideas.

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Check out our COLLECTION OF WRITTEN GUIDES TO THE GREAT BOOKS.

Check out THE ASCENT - a sister publication focusing on Christian spirituality, theosis, and sanctification - how does the soul ascend to God.

From the guide:

Why should you read the Euthyphro?

The Euthyphro is fundamentally “a dialogue about piety,” as Dcn. Harrison Garlick describes it, serving as an exploration of what piety truly means through a conversation between Socrates and Euthyphro. Dr. Frank Grabowski emphasizes its value as “a wonderful introduction to Platonic philosophy, Platonic literature,” highlighting how it features Socrates as the central figure and showcases “the Socratic method” in a clear and engaging way. Moments of “Socratic irony” are also evident, adding depth to understanding Socrates' approach, while the dialogue introduces Plato's search for the Ideas.

The dialogue is short and more straightforward, which makes it more ideal for first time readers than say the Republic or the Symposium. Its accessibility lies in its simplicity and a layered narrative, allowing readers to engage at their own intellectual level—focusing initially on key dilemmas but discovering more upon rereading—as Dcn. Harrison Garlick notes that “like most of Plato's narratives, the dialogues... bring layers... you can kind of grow with the text." For many, it's the first Platonic work encountered, often bundled with the Apology, Crito, and Phaedo as depictions of Socrates' last days.

What is the historical context for the Euthyphro?

The dramatic date of the Euthyphro is right before Socrates’ trial and execution in 399 BC. The composition date is estimated at 380 BC, but all composition dates should be accepted lightly. The dialogue takes place outside of the King Archon's court, a remnant of Athens' monarchical past, where a judge adjudicates on religious matters. Plato offers a conversation about piety, within its political context, right before his master is tried and condemned for his impiety. As moderns, we do not see piety as a political virtue, but for the Greeks, piety a virtue of cohesion—it bound together the family, the polis, and the gods into one cosmic whole. It is this three-tiered piety that animated the Iliad, Aeschylus’ Oresteia, and Sophocles’ Antigone. King Archon’s court is significant, because it underscores piety as a “political problem.” Impiety can destabilize the polis. Dr. Spencer suggests that Euthyphro sees Socrates as “being out of place,” which can be read as a euphemism for impiety or religious pollution, i.e., Socrates is the pollution of Athens. The question, however, is what is piety?

What is the first...