If you want your brand to show up in ChatGPT, do you follow the same rules as ranking in Google—or is it a completely different game?

To settle the debate, we brought in Patrick Stox, one of the most experienced SEO professionals in the industry. Patrick’s been tracking the rise of “Answer Engine Optimization” (AEO) and has strong opinions about the advice new experts are spreading.

In this episode, we dive deep into how AI chatbots pull information, how to get your brand mentioned by them, and why AEO might not be as new as it sounds.

Here’s what you’ll learn:

(00:00) Intro

(02:05) Do AI bots render JavaScript? The surprising answer

(04:20) To get cited by AI, should your content be the same or different?

(10:18) How Large Language Models (LLMs) actually work

(15:10) The most important AEO tactic isn’t SEO—it’s this

(20:00) Actionable tactics to control what AI says about you

(26:20) Why a Korean search query might cite an English page

(29:39) AEO is bringing desktop optimization back—here’s why

(32:00) How to repurpose content for maximum AEO impact

(36:20) Why YouTube is a bigger opportunity than ChatGPT today

(41:20) Using communities, PR, and affiliates to shape your AI narrative

(44:10) The big secret: Answer Engine Optimization is just good marketing

Connect with Patrick:

X: @patrickstox

LinkedIn: patrickstox

Connect with Tim:

X: @timsoulo

LinkedIn: timsoulo

Website: timsoulo.com

AI search is exploding — and everyone wants to teach you how to show up in ChatGPT.

But in this new “Wild West,” who can you actually trust?

Meet Ryan Law, Ahrefs’ Director of Content Marketing.

Ryan and his team have carried out some of the largest studies on AI search, backed by millions of data points, to understand what actually works when it comes to Answer Engine Optimization (AEO).

If you’ve been waiting for a credible, data-backed guide to getting your brand and content visible in AI search — this is it.

What you’ll learn in this episode:

00:00 — Intro

01:06 — The Current State of AI Search

03:46 — 3 Ways to Influence Your AI Visibility

07:55 — The “Era of Off-Page SEO”: Why Mentions Are the New Backlinks

14:48 — Optimizing the Content Types AI Prefers to Cite

18:33 — How to Write for AI (and Humans)

25:51 — Finding and Fixing “Hallucinated URLs” from AI

27:18 — The Untapped Training Data Sources LLMs Love

28:37 — How to Perform a Content Gap Analysis for the AI Era

32:56 — The #1 Technical Mistake in Answer Engine Optimization

34:40 — Fan-Out Queries: How AI Actually Searches Google

39:50 — The Spam Strategy You Must Avoid

41:00 — A Simple 2-Category Framework for AEO

42:32 — AI Search vs. Google’s AI Overviews

44:50 — Outro

Connect with Ryan:

LinkedIn — https://www.linkedin.com/in/thinkingslow/

X — @thinking_slow

Connect with Tim:

LinkedIn — https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsoulo/

X — @timsoulo

Website — https://www.timsoulo.com/

If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to follow the Ahrefs Podcast and share it with a friend.

Referenced:

Ahrefs Brand Radar — https://ahrefs.com/brand-radar

Ahrefs Site Explorer — https://ahrefs.com/site-explorer

Ahrefs Web Analytics — https://ahrefs.com/webmaster-tools

Clearscope — https://www.clearscope.io

G2 — https://www.g2.com

Reddit — https://www.reddit.com

Quora — https://www.quora.com

Employee-generated content isn’t just a trend — it’s the future of marketing.

In this episode of the Ahrefs Podcast, we dive deep into the world of Employee Generated Content (EGC) and short-form social video with Melissa Laurie, founder and CEO of Oysterly Media.

Discover why authentic, employee-created video content published on brand channels is quickly becoming essential for companies that want to stand out. Melissa explains how to do EGC right — and why audiences are craving genuine interactions over polished ads.

She breaks down the powerful “Triple A Effect” of EGC:

Attracting top talent,

Retaining engaged staff,

And accelerating sales with real product showcases.

You’ll hear why Gen Z doesn’t magically know how to make great social content, how to structure a video that hooks attention in seconds, and why even the Singapore Police Force is jumping on the trend.

Melissa shares real-world frameworks, production tips, and success stories from companies like Hilton and Microsoft.

In this episode:

(00:00) Intro

(01:57) What is Employee-Generated Content (EGC)?

(03:32) Posting from employee accounts vs company accounts

(09:27) Using EGC to help with employee disengagement and recruiting

(15:35) Examples of successful Day in the Life videos

(21:00) Frameworks for EGC videos

(31:59) Does trend-jumping work for companies?

(35:36) Misconceptions about EGC

(41:26) Hacks for making solid short-form videos

(48:00) Consulting vs outsourcing for social media content

(50:13) The ROI of short-form video for businesses

(55:42) Making the shift from sales to social media

(58:15) Outro

We hope you enjoyed this episode of the Ahrefs Podcast!

Be sure to like, subscribe — and tell a friend.

Where to find Melissa:

LinkedIn: Melissa Laurie

Website: oysterlymedia.com

Where to find Tim:

LinkedIn: Tim Soulo

X: @timsoulo

Website: timsoulo.com

AI Overviews are changing search — but not in the way Google wants you to think.

In this episode of the Ahrefs Podcast, Tim Soulo sits down with Kevin Indig to discuss the real impact of AI on search behavior, website traffic, and SEO strategy.

Kevin analyzed over 5 billion search visits and found that while people are searching more often, they’re spending less time per session — and zero-click searches are on the rise.

But this isn’t just about traffic.

Kevin argues that SEO isn’t dying — it’s just entering a new investment cycle. The smartest companies are already shifting resources toward AI visibility, building tools, and rethinking how they show up in ChatGPT and beyond.

In this episode:

(00:00) Intro

(02:39) How is search changing?

(06:20) Revenue vs traffic

(10:30) How AI Overviews are changing

(13:46) Join Kevin at Ahrefs Evolve

(14:23) How to show up in AI Overviews (and is it even useful?)

(20:10) AI Overview volatility

(26:02) Queries vs prompts

(31:11) External validation: the key to ranking on AI Overviews

(35:13) Is SEO dead?

(42:50) Ranking in AI Overviews vs ChatGPT

(49:18) What you should be optimizing with AI

(01:05:42) Vibe coding in action

(01:07:21) Outro

We hope you enjoyed this episode of the Ahrefs Podcast!

Be sure to like, subscribe — and tell a friend.

Where to find Kevin:

LinkedIn: Kevin Indig

X: @Kevin_Indig

Website: mkt1.co

Where to find Tim:

LinkedIn: Tim Soulo

X: @timsoulo

Website: timsoulo.com

Referenced in this episode

👤 People

Dmitry Gerasimenko

Ryan Law

Rand Fishkin

Eric Siu

🏢 Companies & Brands

Ahrefs

Google

OpenAI

Similarweb

ChatGPT

Ramp

🛠️ Tools / Platforms

Claude

Humata AI

AirOps

v0 by Vercel

Cursor

Relevance AI

📚 Frameworks & Concepts

AI Overviews (Google SGE)

Vibe Coding

Zero-Click Searches

First Mover Advantage

Information Gain (SEO Strategy)

#SEO #GoogleAI #AIOverviews #AhrefsPodcast #KevinIndig #SearchMarketing #DigitalMarketing #AIContent #LLMSearch #ZeroClickSearches #ContentStrategy #AIinMarketing #VibeCoding #MarketingAutomation #aiseo

Emily Kramer (Founder of MKT1 and the Dear Marketers podcast) has led marketing teams at Asana, Carta, and Astro (acquired by Slack).

After working in-house, she became an advisor, consulting with B2B startup founders on marketing approaches across growth stages, audiences, and GTM motions.

She’s seen it all.

We chatted about positioning fundamentals, product vs. content marketing, the growing founder-influencer trend, and her personally coined Fuel and Engine Framework that identifies which part of a broken marketing machine needs fixing.

In this episode:

(00:00) Intro

(01:38) How Will AI Change Startup Marketing and Advising?

(07:53) The First Steps to Startup Marketing

(14:56) Join Emily at Ahrefs Evolve

(15:35) The 12 Marketing Advantages Framework

(16:43) Getting Your Messaging and Positioning Right

(22:40) The Fuel and Engine Framework

(28:59) The 30% Juice Rule for Startups (DEBUNKED)

(34:57) The Difference Between Product Marketing and Content Marketing

(40:11) Examples of Ultra-Successful Campaigns & Measuring the ROI

(49:13) Category Creation vs Roles

(51:28) The Rise of Ecosystem Marketing

(59:34) Is SEO Dying?

(01:01:21) Founders as Influencers

(01:07:57) The Shortcut to Building Brand Influence

(01:14:10) Outro

We hope you enjoyed this episode of the Ahrefs Podcast! As always, be sure to like, subscribe, and tell a friend.

—

Where to find Emily:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emilykramer/

Website: https://www.mkt1.co/

Where to find Tim:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsoulo/

X: https://x.com/timsoulo

Website: https://www.timsoulo.com/

—

Referenced in this episode:

👤 People:

Dave Fallarme – https://www.linkedin.com/in/dfallarme/

April Dunford – https://aprildunford.com/

Dustin Moskovitz – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dustin_Moskovitz

Ryan Law – https://www.linkedin.com/in/thinkingslow/

Dmitry Gerasimenko – https://www.linkedin.com/in/dmytrogerasymenko/

🏢 Companies & Brands:

Owner – https://owner.com/

Carta – https://carta.com/

Airbnb – https://www.airbnb.com/

Clay – https://www.clay.com/

Asana – https://asana.com/

Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/

Twitter – https://twitter.com/

Substack – https://substack.com/

🛠️ Tools / Platforms:

ChatGPT – https://chat.openai.com/

LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/

Reddit – https://www.reddit.com/

TikTok – https://www.tiktok.com/

Google – https://www.google.com/

📚 Frameworks & Concepts:

Fuel & Engine Framework – https://mkt1.substack.com/p/fuel-engine

Marketing Advantages – https://newsletter.mkt1.co/p/find-and-accelerate-your-marketing

Percent Juice Rule – https://newsletter.mkt1.co/p/high-impact-content

Category Creation vs Design – https://www.aprildunford.com/post/dont-let-customers-decide-what-your-product-is

Ecosystem Marketing – https://newsletter.mkt1.co/p/ecosystem-marketing

Business Potential – https://blog.timsoulo.com/business-potential-the-most-important-metric-in-content-marketing/

🌐 Other:

Hashtag Angels – https://www.hashtagangels.com/

—

#StartupMarketing #MarketingStrategy #EmilyKramer #Ahrefs #B2BMarketing #ContentMarketing #FuelAndEngine #EcosystemMarketing #PersonalBrand #MKT1

Tim Soulo posted on LinkedIn asking if anyone wanted the full breakdown of the publishing process behind Ahrefs’ AI-written articles that actually ranked. Over 400 people commented “do it.”

This episode is the result.

Ryan Law, Director of Content Marketing at Ahrefs, walks Tim through the entire AI content workflow he built — from crafting detailed briefs to editing hallucinated links.

It’s not a “push-button” prompt. It’s a repeatable system that combines ChatGPT with real editorial oversight.

And the results are nearly indistinguishable from human-written content.

You’ll hear how Ryan builds outlines, adds expert-level insight, handles internal linking, and avoids the usual AI traps.

If you’re serious about using AI in your content strategy — and not just experimenting — this is the episode to watch.

LinkedIn post:

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/timsoulo_we-built-a-10-step-process-to-create-ai-generated-activity-7348327597769953283-mpQW

In this episode:

(00:00) Why We Made This Episode

(01:03) How We Know This Workflow Works

(02:05) The Basic Setup in ChatGPT (Foundational Instruction Files)

(05:45) Setting up the Content Brief

(14:19) Join Ryan at Ahrefs Evolve

(16:03) Generating a Solid Outline

(19:36) Improving AI Output

(27:05) The Importance of Human Review

(29:33) Polishing the Formatting

(30:43) A Closer Look at the 7 Foundational Documents

(44:01) Outro

–––

Where to find Ryan:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thinkingslow/

X: @thinking_slow

Website: https://ryanlaw.me/

Where to find Tim:

LinkedIn: (https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsoulo/)

X: @timsoulo

Website: https://www.timsoulo.com/

–––

Referenced in this episode

👤 People

Ryan Law

https://www.linkedin.com/in/thinkingslow/

Andrej Karpathy

https://karpathy.ai/

Barbara Minto

https://barbaraminto.com/

Gary Provost

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Provost

Patrick Stox

https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrickstox/

⸻

🏢 Companies & Brands

Ahrefs

https://ahrefs.com/

Google

https://www.google.com/

Tesla

https://www.tesla.com/

McKinsey & Company

https://www.mckinsey.com/

⸻

🛠️ Tools / Platforms

ChatGPT

https://chat.openai.com/

WordPress

https://wordpress.org/

Claude

https://www.anthropic.com/product/claude

Replit

https://replit.com/

Google Docs

https://docs.google.com/

LinkedIn

https://www.linkedin.com/

GitHub

https://github.com/

⸻

📚 Frameworks & Concepts

PAS Formula (Problem–Agitate–Solution)

https://beomniscient.com/blog/pas-copywriting/

MECE Principle (Mutually Exclusive, Collectively Exhaustive)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MECE_principle

Pyramid Principle

https://www.amazon.fr/Pyramid-Principle-Logic-Writing-Thinking/dp/0273710516

Information Gain (SEO & Content Strategy)

https://www.clearscope.io/blog/information-gain-seo

–––

#AIContent

#ContentMarketing

#SEOStrategy

#ChatGPT

#Ahrefs

#AIWorkflow

#ContentCreation

#DigitalMarketing

#AIforSEO

#AhrefsPodcast

Is your marketing stuck in “competent” mode?

In a world where AI can generate endless content, being good isn’t good enough anymore.

In this episode, Tim Soulo sits down with best-selling author and marketing futurist Mark Schaefer to unpack why most marketing feels flat — and how to fix it. Drawing from his book Audacious, Mark makes the case for out-humaning the machines: creating content that’s emotional, unexpected, and deeply memorable.

You’ll learn:

• Why the real threat to your brand isn’t AI — it’s being boring

• How concepts like the handicap principle and pratfall effect make content feel more real

• What a $1,500 pig can teach you about word-of-mouth marketing

• Why Liquid Death isn’t selling water — they’re selling marketing

• How to measure the ROI of audacity in a spreadsheet-driven world

If your brand is playing it safe, this conversation will push you to think bigger, bolder, and more human.

Chapters:

(00:00) Intro

(03:06) The Concept of Audacious Marketing

(08:52) How to Out-Human the Machines

(11:39) Join Ahrefs Evolve

(12:18) Using AI in Marketing

(21:12) How a $1500 Pig Became a Marketing Sensation

(30:47) Breaking Bad Rules for Good Reasons

(37:12) Creating Awe to Break the Pandemic of Dull

(48:31) Using Controversy and Stunts to Create Awareness

(55:28) How Liquid Death Disrupted a Boring Industry Through Marketing

(01:05:15) Buying a Product vs Buying a Brand

(01:13:27) Measuring the Impact of Audacious Marketing

(01:21:01) Outro

Where to find Mark:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisclickup/

Website: https://clickup.com/

Where to find Tim:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsoulo/

X: https://twitter.com/timsoulo

Website: https://www.timsoulo.com/

Referenced in this episode:

👤 People

Michael Krivica — https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelkrivica/

Dacher Keltner — https://www.linkedin.com/in/dacherkeltner/

Peter Drucker — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Drucker

Philip Kotler — https://www.linkedin.com/in/philipkotler/

Patrick Campbell — https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrickccampbell/

Jonah Berger — https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonahberger/

Bill Gates — https://www.linkedin.com/in/billgates/

Mike Cessario (Liquid Death Founder) — https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikecessario/

Stix Nielsen (ex-Liquid Death CMO) — https://www.linkedin.com/in/stixnielsen/

🏢 Companies & Brands

Ahrefs — https://ahrefs.com/

Coca-Cola — https://www.coca-colacompany.com/

Netflix — https://www.netflix.com/

Liquid Death — https://liquiddeath.com/

Pepsi — https://www.pepsico.com/

Powerade — https://www.powerade.com/

Gatorade — https://www.gatorade.com/

Elf Cosmetics — https://www.elfcosmetics.com/

Roblox — https://www.roblox.com/

monday.com — https://monday.com/

ClickUp — https://clickup.com/

Asana — https://asana.com/

BMW — https://www.bmw.com/

Audi — https://www.audi.com/

Mercedes — https://www.mercedes-benz.com/

ProfitWell — https://www.profitwell.com/

Mischief Agency — https://www.mischiefusa.com/

Taboo — https://www.taboo.com.au/

📚 Books

Audacious by Mark Schaefer — https://www.amazon.com/Audacious-Marketing-Humans-Machines-Dominate/dp/1119904791

Contagious: Why Things Catch On by Jonah Berger — https://www.amazon.com/Contagious-Things-Catch-Jonah-Berger/dp/1451686579

Awe: The New Science of Everyday Wonder and How It Can Transform Your Life by Dacher Keltner — https://www.amazon.com/Awe-Science-Everyday-Wonder-Transform/dp/1982172820

📚 Concepts & Frameworks

Handicap Principle — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handicap_principle

Pratfall Effect — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratfall_effect

Social Objects — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_object

Collective Effervescence — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_effervescence

Four P’s of Marketing — https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/four-ps-of-marketing.asp

🎬 Events

South by Southwest (SXSW) — https://www.sxsw.com/

Ahrefs Evolve Conference — https://ahrefs.com/evolve

Chris Cunningham, founding member of ClickUp, reveals the social media strategy that drives a staggering 150M monthly impressions. This is *the* exact strategy that's also attracted major clients like VaynerMedia (yes, GaryVee literally found them through social media).

Grab your notes. 📝 Chris shares his contrarian take on hooks and pattern interrupts, explains why hiring LA actors is a no-brainer for your social content, and walks us through his secret Trial Reels technique that consistently multiplies video performance.

In this episode:

(00:00) The Power of Humor in B2B Marketing

(00:57) Measuring ROI in Social Media Strategies

(05:10) How Much Does It Cost to Create This Type of Content?

(07:32) Finding and Hiring Talent for Content Creation

(12:57) Integrating Humor with Project Management Software

(17:25) The Creative Process: From Ideas to Execution

(18:40) Using Trial Reels to Test Impact(21:08) Brainstorming Creative Ideas(24:02) Balancing Fun and Product Promotion

(29:17) Breaking Marketing Norms

(33:30) The ABCD Framework for Content Creation

(38:33) Pattern Interrupt Techniques in Content

(43:18) Psychological Hacks for Converting Followers

(46:24) Building a Personal Brand Vs a Company Brand

(50:39) Types of Content for Brand Accounts

(53:44) Defining the ClickUp Brand

(57:10) The $15K ClickUp Album

(01:02:01) Influencer Marketing Strategies

(01:04:50) The Super Bowl Ad Experience

(01:07:35) AI in Marketing: A Critical Perspective

(01:11:54) Outro

We hope you enjoyed this episode of Ahrefs Podcast! As always, be sure to like and subscribe (and tell a friend).

⸻

Where to find Chris:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisclickup/

X: @ChrisClickUp

Website: https://clickup.com/

Where to find Tim:

LinkedIn: (https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsoulo/)

X: @timsoulo

Website: https://www.timsoulo.com/

⸻

Referenced in this episode:

👤 People

Gary Vaynerchuk (GaryVee): https://www.linkedin.com/in/garyvaynerchuk/

Kyle Coleman (ClickUp CMO): https://www.linkedin.com/in/kylecoleman/

Adam Robinson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamsrobinson/

Gaurav Agarwal (ClickUp COO): https://www.linkedin.com/in/gaurav-agarwal-8278271/

Zeb Evans (ClickUp Founder/CEO): https://www.linkedin.com/in/zeb-evans/

Seth Godin: https://www.sethgodin.com/

Mr. Beast: ⁨@MrBeast⁩

Clever (Artist): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clever_(rapper)

⸻

🏢 Companies & Brands

VaynerMedia: https://vaynerx.com/

Adweek (Adworld): https://www.adweek.com/

Groundlings: https://www.groundlings.com/

Copy AI: https://www.copy.ai/

Clari: https://www.clari.com/

BuzzFeed: https://www.buzzfeed.com/

Halligan Cinema: https://halligancinema.com/

HubSpot: https://www.hubspot.com/

Asana: https://asana.com/

Jira: https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira

Wendy’s: https://www.wendys.com/

Apple: https://www.apple.com/

Windows (Microsoft): https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows

Morning Brew: https://www.morningbrew.com/

⸻

🛠️ Tools / Platforms

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/

Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/

Spotify: https://www.spotify.com/

Apple Music: https://www.apple.com/apple-music/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/

Claude (Anthropic AI): https://www.anthropic.com/news/claude-3-family

ChatGPT (OpenAI): https://chat.openai.com/

Clay (Lead gen / enrichment): https://www.clay.com/