We sit down with Kirill Klokov, CEO of Truv, to break down everything lenders need to know about income verification providers.

Vetting Income Verification Vendors

• Why most providers use the same underlying data sources
• The power of back-testing analysis on your own data
• Smart questions sophisticated lenders ask during RFPs

The Consumer Experience

• Why 35% of users drop off at bank login screens
• How to build a smart "waterfall" approach (spoiler: start cheap, then hit instant databases)
• The messaging that actually works with borrowers

Beyond Basic Income Verification

• Why a "complete product" covers W2s, gig workers, benefits, and self-employed
• How payroll data beats bank data for complex income situations
• The complexity of underwriting sales reps vs. salaried workers

AI's Impact on Lending

• How AI is eliminating manual QA and bug fixes
• Why payroll data becomes more valuable as AI-generated fraud gets better
• The future of mortgage loan officers (hint: they're not going anywhere)

Truv's New Business Model

• Their shift from per-transaction pricing to "pay when the loan closes"
• How this aligns incentives and removes upfront risk for lenders

Find Kirill Klokov on LinkedIn:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/kirillklokov/

***

Drive thousands of new accounts and billions in deposits with the only partner marketing solution built for fintech and banking – your all-in-one affiliate platform, partner network, agency, and marketing compliance engine.

https://partner.fintelconnect.com/get-to-know-fintel-connect?utm_campaign=13897733-2025%20Partners&utm_source=The%20Free%20Toaster&utm_medium=podcast

A word from our sponsor, Spinwheel:

Reduce friction in your lending application with just two fields—phone number and birthdate. Spinwheel’s APIs boost application rates by 20-30% while also providing real-time credit data and seamless payment processing. Want to see it in action? Connect with their Head of Growth for a demo!

https://spinwheel.io/partner/?utm_source=freetoaster&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=july

A word from our sponsor, New Market Growth:

New Market Growth helps fintech consumer lenders generate explosive growth on affiliate marketing channels like Credit Karma, Experian Marketplace, LendingTree, and others. Affiliate marketing involves marketing & credit risk expertise, and NMG's founders bring this with 21+ years of lending experience and 8+ years experience as executive affiliate operators. If you'd like help planning or implementing your affiliate marketing strategy, email us at carlos@newmarketgrowth.com

Subscribe to the Free Toaster Newsletter: www.thefreetoaster.com/

Timestamps:

I sat down with John Henson, a fintech-savvy lawyer who formerly worked at LendingTree (both as an attorney and a general manager). He unpacks the regulatory chaos swirling around lead generation in 2025 — what’s changed, what’s still risky, and how fintech marketers can navigate it without getting burned.

• The CFPB Rolled Back Rules: Credit card and personal loan lead gen just got a little more breathing room. John explains what’s safe and what’s not.
• Mortgage Lead Gen Isn’t Dead: Despite RESPA, there are ways to play without federal headaches.
• State Privacy Laws Are Tightening: You might be a “data broker” without knowing it — and that’s a compliance minefield.
• Banks Fear AI: Rumor has is that some big banks are banning generative AI in lead gen. John weighs in on the reality.
• Some Lead Gen Is Still Garbage: Learn how to spot sketchy providers before you get sued.

...and much more.

John Henson is a rare breed: a lawyer who understands marketing. He spent 6 years at LendingTree running lead gen and compliance, so he knows the real-world challenges fintechs face. Now, he helps companies stay out of trouble while growing smart. Follow him on LinkedIn for sharp insights.

***

Drive thousands of new accounts and billions in deposits with the only partner marketing solution built for fintech and banking – your all-in-one affiliate platform, partner network, agency, and marketing compliance engine.

https://partner.fintelconnect.com/get-to-know-fintel-connect?utm_campaign=13897733-2025%20Partners&utm_source=The%20Free%20Toaster&utm_medium=podcast

A word from our sponsor, Spinwheel:

Reduce friction in your lending application with just two fields—phone number and birthdate. Spinwheel’s APIs boost application rates by 20-30% while also providing real-time credit data and seamless payment processing. Want to see it in action? Connect with their Head of Growth for a demo!

https://spinwheel.io/partner/?utm_source=freetoaster&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=june

A word from our sponsor, New Market Growth:

New Market Growth helps fintech consumer lenders generate explosive growth on affiliate marketing channels like Credit Karma, Experian Marketplace, LendingTree, and others. Affiliate marketing involves marketing & credit risk expertise, and NMG's founders bring this with 21+ years of lending experience and 8+ years experience as executive affiliate operators. If you'd like help planning or implementing your affiliate marketing strategy, email us at carlos@newmarketgrowth.com

Subscribe to the Free Toaster Newsletter: www.thefreetoaster.com/

Timestamps:

I explain positive and adverse selection in lending using recruiting as an analogy. If you've ever hired someone, you'll instantly understand why your channels, pricing, and process determine your loan portfolio quality.

The Big Idea: Attracting great borrowers works exactly like hiring great people.

The parallels...

• Inbound (website traffic): People actively searching, often desperate
• Outbound (direct mail): Higher-quality prospects who aren't hunting
• Best candidates and borrowers usually aren't usually looking

• Post a $100K vs $200K director role—which gets better candidates?
• Same with loans: competitive rates attract quality borrowers
• Even small rate differences (12% vs 14%) shift your entire applicant mix

• Complex hiring processes drive away top talent with options
• Heavy loan applications do the same to good credit risks
• You're left with applicants who have time and fewer alternatives

• Audit your inbound vs outbound channel mix
• Price competitively—good borrowers shop around
• Streamline your application process ruthlessly
• Go find great borrowers instead of waiting for them

You can find a written version of today's content in our Newsletter: https://www.thefreetoaster.com/p/positive-negative-select-in-lending

***

Drive thousands of new accounts and billions in deposits with the only partner marketing solution built for fintech and banking – your all-in-one affiliate platform, partner network, agency, and marketing compliance engine.

https://partner.fintelconnect.com/get-to-know-fintel-connect?utm_campaign=13897733-2025%20Partners&utm_source=The%20Free%20Toaster&utm_medium=podcast

A word from our sponsor, Spinwheel:

Reduce friction in your lending application with just two fields—phone number and birthdate. Spinwheel’s APIs boost application rates by 20-30% while also providing real-time credit data and seamless payment processing. Want to see it in action? Connect with their Head of Growth for a demo!

https://spinwheel.io/partner/?utm_source=freetoaster&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=june

A word from our sponsor, New Market Growth:

New Market Growth helps fintech consumer lenders generate explosive growth on affiliate marketing channels like Credit Karma, Experian Marketplace, LendingTree, and others. Affiliate marketing involves marketing & credit risk expertise, and NMG's founders bring this with 21+ years of lending experience and 8+ years experience as executive affiliate operators. If you'd like help planning or implementing your affiliate marketing strategy, email us at carlos@newmarketgrowth.com

Subscribe to the Free Toaster Newsletter: www.thefreetoaster.com/

Timestamps:

I talk about a surprising case study where a lending product thrived in one affiliate marketplace but completely flopped in another. We explore the key differences between marketplaces that can dramatically impact performance and provide actionable insights for fintech marketers.

• Don't assume success transfers between marketplaces: A product that works well with one affiliate partner may struggle with another due to fundamental marketplace differences.
• Three critical marketplace variables to consider:
  • Algorithm differences
  • Competitive landscape variations
  • Offer presentation layer discrepancies
• Strategic takeaways:
  • Consider designing different product versions for different channels
  • Expect varying unit economics across partnerships
  • Recognize that market share will naturally differ between platforms

*****

A word from our sponsor, Spinwheel:

Reduce friction in your lending application with just two fields—phone number and birthdate. Spinwheel’s APIs boost application rates by 20-30% while also providing real-time credit data and seamless payment processing. Want to see it in action? Connect with their Head of Growth for a demo!

https://spinwheel.io/partner/?utm_source=freetoaster&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=may

A word from our sponsor, New Market Growth:

New Market Growth helps fintech consumer lenders generate explosive growth on affiliate marketing channels like Credit Karma, Experian Marketplace, LendingTree, and others. Affiliate marketing involves marketing & credit risk expertise, and NMG's founders bring this with 21+ years of lending experience and 8+ years experience as executive affiliate operators. If you'd like help planning or implementing your affiliate marketing strategy, email us at carlos@newmarketgrowth.com

Subscribe to the Free Toaster Newsletter: www.thefreetoaster.com/

Timestamps:

Marketers sometimes like to enter new channels gradually, conservatively even. This works in many channels like paid search, social, and direct mail.

But for fintechs, entering new affiliate channels like this can have catastrophic consequences.

In today's Podcast, I share why entering into new affiliate marketplaces "cautiously" can be dangerous for new entrants. I'll walk you through how to play the game in reverse.

Note: If you want to hear more about this in future Podcasts, email me at carlos@newmarketgrowth.com with your questions.

*****

A word from our sponsor, Spinwheel:

Reduce friction in your lending application with just two fields—phone number and birthdate. Spinwheel’s APIs boost application rates by 20-30% while also providing real-time credit data and seamless payment processing. Want to see it in action? Connect with their Head of Growth for a demo!

https://spinwheel.io/partner/?utm_source=freetoaster&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=apr

A word from our sponsor, New Market Growth:

New Market Growth helps fintech consumer lenders generate explosive growth on affiliate marketing channels like Credit Karma, Experian Marketplace, LendingTree, and others. Affiliate marketing involves marketing & credit risk expertise, and NMG's founders bring this with 21+ years of lending experience and 8+ years experience as executive affiliate operators. If you'd like help planning or implementing your affiliate marketing strategy, email us at carlos@newmarketgrowth.com

Subscribe to the Free Toaster Newsletter: www.thefreetoaster.com/

Timestamps:

We chat with Colin about how AI is changing marketplaces.

His thesis: “The rise of agentic AI will transform marketplaces from passive aggregators to active facilitators of transactions.”

To learn more, check out Colin’s take on how AI will revolutionize marketplaces: https://www.gardinercolin.com/p/ai-and-marketplaces-agent-led

About Colin Gardiner

Former economics/statistical researcher that now loves building sticky consumer facing products via iterative data-driven methods. Built products for both large corporations and seed level startups, always with a primary focus on acquisition, conversion and monetization.

*****

A word from our sponsor, Spinwheel:

Reduce friction in your lending application with just two fields—phone number and birthdate. Spinwheel’s APIs boost application rates by 20-30% while also providing real-time credit data and seamless payment processing. Want to see it in action? Connect with their Head of Growth for a demo!

https://spinwheel.io/partner/?utm_source=freetoaster&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=apr

A word from our sponsor, New Market Growth:

New Market Growth helps fintech consumer lenders generate explosive growth on affiliate marketing channels like Credit Karma, Experian Marketplace, LendingTree, and others. Affiliate marketing involves marketing & credit risk expertise, and NMG's founders bring this with 21+ years of lending experience and 8+ years experience as executive affiliate operators. If you'd like help planning or implementing your affiliate marketing strategy, email us at carlos@newmarketgrowth.com

Subscribe to the Free Toaster Newsletter: www.thefreetoaster.com/

Timestamps: