Note: Text has been lightly edited for clarity and does not match audio exactly.
Patty K. Rivera: Hi, listeners. I'm Audible Editor Patty K. Rivera, and I'm excited to be here with contemporary romance author Victoria Wilder. Today we're here to talk about the last book in her bestselling Bourbon Boys series, Bourbon & Proof. Welcome, Victoria.
Victoria Wilder: Hello. So nice to chat with you.
PR: Honestly, the excitement, I can barely stay in my chair [laughs], so I want to get started right away. Let's talk about the performance, because it was hot!
VW: Oh my gosh.
PR: I feel like you're an audiobook fan, simply because the casting for the entire Bourbon Boys series has been phenomenal. Victoria Connolly and Sean Masters deliver a performance that is just as tension-filled as the story. How did it feel to listen to their performance? First part of the question. Second, was there a moment in their performance where you felt they revealed something new about Ace and Hadley?
VW: Ooh.
PR: And then the last part of the question, what about them made them the right choice to voice Ace and Hadley?
VW: So, the very first time I heard it, it was to do a proof round, and I squealed, kicked my feet, and screamed at my PA. I was like, "I can't wait for you to hear this." Audio is an entirely new universe to me. I am more of an eyeball reader. I'm a Kindle reader. Audiobooks are a new world to me as a reader and listener. And I just know what I like. I feel like I can hear a lot of these characters and what I think their voices are going to sound like, and it's just about working with my producer and making sure that I find the right person that doesn't just sound the right part of the main character, but that has versatility in how they perform.
I think all the books in this series, and especially for Bourbon & Proof, they feel like performances. They didn't just feel like narrators reading a book. It really felt like they were voice acting. And to me, they just knocked it out of the park. When I heard it for the first time, I knew it was something special. I feel like anybody that listens to the book, after even they've read it, it's a new experience. It's an entirely new experience. You'll have to remind me what part two was [laughs].
PR: So, second part, was there a moment in their performance where you felt they revealed something new about Ace and Hadley?
VW: I think it's not so much something new, but more just pulling back more layers that I didn't realize had existed with them. I think Victoria Connolly does an amazing job of showing this real sassy side of Hadley that everybody reads and loves, but she also adds this level of vulnerability to the way she reads that is just entirely new. And Sean does exactly what I wanted him to do. He gravels that voice so low, it almost feels like it's being raked over rocks and dirt. And then he can deliver things in such a way, like when Ace is whispering in Hadley's ear about being a good girl, he just delivers it in a way that you feel it crawl up your arms. It's just very well done. So, to me, the actors were bringing a new level to the character. I don't know if it was necessarily something new that I hadn't discovered about them, but I just felt them come to life with this, the way it was read.
PR: It definitely shines through. Like you were just talking about, Ace whispering in Hadley's ear, and every scene where he did, I was just like, "Oh, okay." I just wanted to scream, giggle, kick my feet up. It was just 10 out of 10. Did you cast the entire series all at once?
VW: No. Each book I cast separately, and the narrators are so booked ahead that I really had to start thinking about it. I produced all of these on my own with One Night Stand Studios, and my producer Katie really helped make sure that I found the right people. My PA helped me figure out different voices to listen to beforehand, but I knew with book 1, Samantha Brentmoor's voice just sounded like Laney to me. She's just so good at what she does. And then with book 2, Faye, who is this private investigator, burlesque dancer, she has a rasp to her voice that, in my opinion, only Megan Wicks could deliver. And then with book 3, Victoria Connolly just has this depth to how she reads and to how she performs. To me, I knew even before I had reached out to her, I had listened to her perform on a Freida McFadden book, I want to say it was The Boyfriend, and I just loved how she played with her tone, and I knew that that was going to be her.
"My characters have more than just depth to them, and more than just a deep voice."
For the men, it was just an entirely different world, because to me, the women in my stories are, like, my stories are definitely female-focused. I think I'm a girl's girl at heart, and I think you can see that in a lot of my writing. So, to me, it was about getting the girls right first, and then it was thinking about, "Well, everybody goes wild over the men, right?" To me, men that read these parts need to have layers. My characters have more than just depth to them, and more than just a deep voice. They need to be able to read in a way where they change their tone and cadence as they're having a conversation. Connor Crais, Lee Samuels, and Sean Masters are all just fantastic at what they do. I wish I was brilliant enough to have cast them all at once and to have known at the beginning, but it was sort of a learning as I was moving along and drafting these characters and then seeing, "Okay, this is who I want. Are they available?" I was really lucky that they were. So, it was a great experience.
PR: I think we can all collectively say that we got lucky with this casting, because the audio is just so fantastic. I have been raving about each of the books in the Bourbon Boys series since the first one. And you have been teasing us with Ace and Hadley since the very first book, Victoria.
VW: I have [laughs]. So, as I drafted the first story, I wasn't expecting Hadley and Ace to have the kind of chemistry they did. It just sort of happened with a little bit of banter. In the very first scene I think they're in together, in Bourbon & Lies, Hadley's entering the scene, she throws the hood of her purple muscle car down and traipses up the walkway and throws out some kind of sassy line to Ace. And it just hit. And now all my ideas for book 2 about being a friends-to-lovers romance went right out the door, because I thought, "Okay, she's a better fit for Ace in my mind. Like, there's stuff happening there.”
PR: Stop it right now, Victoria. Ace and Hadley almost didn't happen?
VW: Yeah, I wasn't sure. I mean, I would love to believe that I'm this very well-polished planner, but I am not. I've come to just accept that every process is different. I do have a very type A personality in most parts of my life. However, when it comes to writing, I need to write and to feel it, and it sort of grows and snowballs. That's what happened with those two characters. When they were on page finally together, it was too good to ignore.
PR: Now, once you did figure out that Ace and Hadley did belong together, did you always know you would close the series with their story? Or was there a point where maybe another couple would've taken the finale?
VW: No, they were always going to close it at that point, because I knew I wasn't ready to write their story for book 2. It just didn't feel right yet. I'm glad I didn't, because so much of what had happened in the suspense rolls out in a way through book 2 and into book 3, where it just makes more sense. A lot of the trauma that happens in book 2 is a reflection of Hadley's character arc and growth in her book, in book 3. These stories can operate as standalones, but it's such a better experience reading them all together.
The same thing with the relationship between Griz, who's the patriarch of the family, and Ace, who's the oldest brother. So much of Griz's story is a side character. He's a supporting character. He's somebody that helps people realize things about themselves throughout each book. But he also needed his own little HEA at the end. And there was no other way that I could do that if it wasn't with Ace as the male main character, because they just had this dynamic as well. So, there were a lot of reasons why Ace and Hadley were going to close up the series, and I'm really happy that it worked out the way that it did.
PR: You truly did save the best for last. I do have to say, I loved Ace, I loved Hadley, but I want to talk about Ace real quick because his devotion, Ace's devotion shows up in hidden gestures long before he says the words. From the clementines to secretly buying out her underwear-business clients. We don't actually hear Ace say the words until almost the end of the story. Why did you want his love to reveal itself that way?
VW: I think there's just something really beautiful about showing and not telling, and with story writing in general, right? But to me, for Ace as a character, I think if you were to ask him straight-up, "Are you a good guy? Do you love the people around you?" I don't know that he would instantly say yes. But all of the examples of how he shows his love is so much greater than just saying the words. And to me, that was just so important, especially with them. I think for so long he deprived himself of what he would say was happiness for him. I think it was more important for him to take care of his family, his brothers, his grandfather, his business. I think that has just been the focal point.
He has his own trauma that happens. He loses his parents, and then all of these really rough things happen to his brothers throughout their lives. I think there's a part of him that felt like he couldn't be happy. And then outside of that, there's this younger firecracker woman who's his brother's best friend, and she was just very off-limits. And then you come to find out there's even more reasons why she's off-limits, because he's made a deal with her father in the story, in order for her to make her own choices. Very reminiscent to him feeling like he maybe never was in the driver's seat for his own decisions. He kind of volleys for her to be able to make her own.
Her father is such a piece of garbage anyway. So, he really does look like this hero, this person that does all these beautiful things. Of course, he loves her, but I don't think he really was ready to recognize that until the end of the story, until he was able to let go and for it to be okay. And for him to really hear it from her as well. Like, she jabs at him throughout the entire series and jokes around about, you know, not wearing panties and all these things. And it's funny and it hits really hard, but I think for him to hear it from her in ways where it mattered was really important. I think for him, seeing her happiness in how she fits into his family was more important to him than selfishly being able to say he's had her.
PR: He's so serious, he's so stoic, and from book 1, there's just this mysterious element about him, and then enter happiness in the form of Hadley. And I have to say, from book 1, Bourbon & Lies, I have absolutely adored Hadley. She is, in the best possible way, a lot.
VW: She is.
PR: In Bourbon & Proof, we finally get to know her motivations and who she truly is. One moment that really stood out to me, and I'm in total, total, total spoiler territory here, listeners, was her decision to buy up Fiasco's properties and sell them back to the original owners. It's such an act of defiance and loyalty all at once. What made you want to give her that power move? And how did you see it reshaping not just her, Hadley, but the town and the Foxx legacy as a whole?
VW: I think for Hadley, she really needed to do something. She's always been a bit of a spitfire. She's been somebody that likes to make her own rules. I think you see pieces of that throughout the series. You see her pushing back, you see her not giving a damn about her sexuality, really kind of flaunting that in front of people. And the idea of a woman being a lot is sometimes seen as a negative. And gosh, I wanted it to be such a positive. There were so many people, readers that had said how they loved her, how she resonated. But that can't just be all she is. I think in so many ways, women that are "a lot" have so many levels to who they are, so that the outward appearance might be fun and exciting and funny and gorgeous, but the internals are so much deeper.
I think for Hadley, she was in a place of needing to flex. She needed to enthusiastically throw her middle fingers up at her father for putting her in a position to have to make these grand decisions about his business that had dragged their name through the mud, that had put Fiasco, the town that she's grown up in, into a negative place. I think what she does with the money that she has access to, which in a very roundabout way is her father's money, she decides what's going to be the biggest F-- you. And that basically is to purchase all the properties that all the small businesses that have been struggling because of the fallout that her father had made, purchase all those properties and sell them back to them for a dollar. Because for her, it wasn't about owning anything anymore. It was about 1) giving back to a town that has been her home, and then 2) basically just doing a final mic drop.
"The idea of a woman being a lot is sometimes seen as a negative. And gosh, I wanted it to be such a positive."
I think there was no other way for her to do it in a loud enough way to her father that was really hitting his pockets. Because at this point, he is on house arrest, he's facing an indictment, the only thing he had left was the money that basically he had either embezzled or had won with really nefarious ways, through horse racing or drug dealing. So, for her, she takes that power and basically just disperses it in the best way she knows how. It was a flex, and that's the best way to describe it.
PR: I absolutely love that. I really appreciate how Hadley did take care of the town, because it feels like they're her found family. And found family plays such a big role in the series. First of all, how did that come together? And then how do you see the role of found family when writing the Bourbon Boy series?
VW: So, to me, found family is one of the most fun, I guess you could call it a trope, especially if you're doing an interconnected series. It's such a great way to really show off characters that you might meet in other stories. And not every family looks the same. I think there's something really special about having a found family that doesn't have a traditional parental unit, that doesn't have traditional siblings or children, but being able to still feel that sense of love and care for each other in the best ways that those characters know.
To me, found family, especially in a small-town series, can play such a big part. There's two big things that I always feel like when I'm writing, if it's the found family aspect and the small town. If you can feel where you are, if you can feel how I've described the town that you're in, and the dinner table that you're at, to me, I've done my job right. I think the best way to do that is with found family. That was always going to be part of the Bourbon Boys series. I have that in my first series too. I just really love that.
I think found family can be, in a lot of ways, its own character in a lot of romance stories, because you do see love in different components and how it can shape a character's growth, especially when you're talking about characters that are coming into the story. The established family of the Foxx brothers is the core of what this series is about. But it was so important for Laney to see herself grow and be a part of it, for Faye to see herself grow and be a part of it, and for Hadley to have already been folded into it. I think from Hadley's perspective, you almost see the Foxx family differently, because they were always there for her. I think each female main character that got to experience the Foxx brothers and the entire family gets it at different angles, but at the end of the story, they just feel like a more completed family unit.
PR: They absolutely do. And because we are talking about found family, it really stood out to me how the women, especially Faye, Laney, and Hadley, from the moment Laney comes to town, she bonds with Hadley. And the same thing happens when Faye shows up. Together they create this little sisterhood inside the Foxx family, which feels especially powerful for Hadley because she's an only child with a mother who's gone, and a father who's Wheeler [laughs].
VW: [Laughs] yep.
PR: Looking for a better word. How did you choose these ladies in particular as being the right fit for each other in their little sisterhood?
VW: I don't know. I think they fit because they are each independently really strong female characters. I think a huge misconception about female relationships is that if you're a strong personality, you can't be friends with another strong personality. And it just, I mean, it's just garbage. I think I just loved the idea of women supporting women regardless of where they came from or who they were. To me, the female relationships are so important. Because for me, female relationships are so important.
As much as I think it was amazing to be able to show Hadley's relationship with each of the brothers, I think it was even more important for her to be welcoming and not closed off to the other two women that entered into the story. I think that just shows the kind of open-mindedness and non-territorial level of woman that she is. I think when you are a confident and I'll say strong female, other women, you are not intimidated by them. You want to absorb whatever it is that they bring to the table. I just think if there was more of that, whether it's in fiction or real life, it would be fantastic.
PR: I agree, it would definitely be fantastic. But in case they didn't get along, I would also see Griz just being like, "No, we're going to get along."
VW: I think there's something to be said for relationships and books with women where it's not always harmonious, and utilizing that as growth as well. I have another series that I'm working on right now where all the women are not super harmonious at the beginning. That's part of their arc. I think it can be played with in fiction in ways that can help replicate what you want to see happen or what you experience as an author in real life. I've been very lucky in the female relationships that I have, both just in real life but also in the bookish universe, where you just feel supported and not in competition with. I feel like if you can see that more, it just feels good. Feels right.
PR: Definitely does. I agree with you. I will say, because you spoke of support and being supported, every single character in this book at one point or another has been supported by Griz, who has always been the Foxx family anchor, the lovable, sharp-tongued grandfather who sees through everyone and their nonsense. But in this book, we get closer to him than ever, and we see how uniquely he pushes Ace, challenging him in ways that nobody else does, except for maybe Hadley. What made you want to bring Griz forward in Bourbon & Proof?
VW: There is just something wonderful about Griz. In the entire series when I was writing it, I could see Sam Elliott playing him on screen, and he just has this thick mustache and this gravel to his voice, and there's just something that makes him more special than a supporting character. I just think there's something great when you're reading romance and you see consistent characters in a series, to be able to catch a glimpse of, if they were to be the main character, what could that look like? I'm just a sucker for thinking, like, I really do believe in what he says, and I don't even remember which book it is, but that you can love as many times as you want throughout your life, and whether that's with the same person in different phases or with somebody new. I just liked being able to show that with his story.
"I think a huge misconception about female relationships is that if you're a strong personality, you can't be friends with another strong personality."
He's in his eighties, he's 80 years young, and for some people that's like, "Oh my gosh, that's crazy." But I think you are still alive and you need to find the things that make you happy. And when he sees that his family, his boys, and his granddaughters, or great-granddaughters rather, are in a better place than maybe where they were when the series began, I think it allows him to take a breath and realize, "Okay, they found their happy, now I want some of my own too. It's not just enough to see theirs anymore."
I think he goes for a really long time raising his grandsons, and he doesn't even allow himself to have that. So, when that becomes an option for him, he is as aggressive in getting it as Ace is getting his. I just think it was important, but also fun. He's just a fun character. He adds a little lightness. I mean, these are romantic suspense stories, so you need a little bit of, I don't know, you need to laugh a little. You need to breathe a little, and I think he's a character that allows for that.
PR: I love his comedic relief. And because I don't want to spoil anything, just thank you for giving him a happily ever after.
VW: Oh, you're so welcome. I got a lot of messages about that one.
PR: So, now that Bourbon Boys is done, what's next?
VW: So, next we're moving a little bit further south to Tennessee, and we are going to do the Whiskey Women series. We're going to do Tennessee whiskey following three sisters who will eventually run their own whiskey distillery in a small town called Rumor, Tennessee. It will be romantic suspense. If you have read or listened to Bourbon & Proof, you will have met the male main character. He is Julian, the jeweler. That'll be Julian's story, so he'll be the first male main character in my first book in the Whiskey Women series.
PR: Thank goodness, because I know Julian had a story to tell us. I knew it.
VW: You learn this in Bourbon & Proof, that he's a jeweler by day, by trade, but his family business is very gray, and he cleans crime scenes as favors to people. So, yeah, there was more to have happen for him. I knew the moment I did a little shimmy to a new town, I knew I was going to stay within sort of the creation of alcohol, but I was like, "Oh, Julian needs a story." So, I'm working on that one right now.
PR: Why alcohol creation? I'm so curious.
VW: I really just always thought bourbon was so sexy. You always see a ton of main characters drinking their bourbon on the rocks. I really hadn't read many series where bourbon or bourbon distilleries were a focal point. They exist, but it was a lot of wineries and that type of alcohol, more female-forward. You think wine, you think women. But that's not the case, really. There's a ton of women that drink whiskey and bourbon. And I said, "Okay, well, if I'm going to do a series about bourbon, I'm going to do it right, so I'm going to go to Kentucky, I'm going to drink some bourbon." So, I go to Kentucky thinking bourbon burns as I drink it. And I left Kentucky about five days later, and I just loved it, like a whole new respect for a subculture.
I mean, and that's what it is. Bourbon is a subculture, just like romance, reading romances. So much depth and detail going into making it. It just needed to be told. I had an absolute blast writing the distillery story, and it felt like the right parallel to go to and think about, "Okay, well what's different about Tennessee whiskey versus Kentucky bourbon?" There's distinct differences. But there's also a mutual appreciation. I love following siblings, and I love doing three books now, so it's going to be three books following three sisters. Definitely different. A more grittier vibe for this next series, but I can't wait. So, yeah, that's the reason for alcohol. It really just started from a, "Hey, this feels really sexy for romance," to kind of falling in love.
PR: Have you ever thought of writing a different romance subgenre or outside of the genre completely?
VW: I'll never say never. I love romance, though. I am a romance author. It just feels like that in my bones. Subgenre? Sure. I am having a blast writing romantic suspense, and I plan to stay here for a while. But I love reading everything else. I read omegaverse, paranormal. I read why choose. There's just a lot of options as a romance reader, and it's fun to try new things. So, will I try writing new things? Maybe. I will never say no. But right now, I'm loving the romantic suspense world.
PR: Okay, so you're clearly loving romantic suspense. Do you have a favorite trope as a romance fan?
VW: I think I'm a very moody reader. A lot of times my mood is different depending on the day. Like, if I'm in the throes of writing or editing, I'm going to not read romantic suspense. I'll read something totally different, like I mentioned before. I'll read Omegaverse, which I love. I think you cannot go wrong with a real enemies-to-lovers done right. I'm reading right now Ali Hazelwood's Hot for Slayer, and it's perfect enemies-to-lovers. Real, true, they are opposites. Enemies-to-lovers, if it's done well, it's beautiful. I love right-person-wrong-time. To me, those are always amazing. I'm an old-school lover of Sliding Doors with Gwyneth Paltrow, where it's like, “What would happen if life were different in different times?” Those are really fun. I don't know, I'm a moody reader, so it depends.
PR: We have that in common. I'm also a moody listener. Now, some superfan questions. Which Bourbon Boy do you think would win in a drinking contest, and what is their drink of choice?
VW: Oh, man. Okay. I think the sleeper is going to be Lincoln because he is the master distiller, so he’s sampled and had probably more bourbon than just about everybody else. And I think it's bourbon. I think it's bourbon, hands down.
PR: Wow. Lincoln out the woodworks. But I do agree, I do agree. He did taste a bunch of batches, so you're absolutely right. Okay, if the Foxx den had a house rule you didn't put on the page, what would it be?
VW: Okay, so a house rule for the Fox den. I mean, I clearly like the no-panties rule, so maybe that [laughs].
PR: [Laughs] okay.
VW: I love it. You're welcome.
PR: I knew this was going to be a great interview, I just knew it. Okay, if Ace and Hadley could recommend one Audible listen to me, what would it be?
VW: Ooh. Okay, super good question. The Art of War? [laughs] At least at the beginning of their story. I mean, I just consume a ton of romance. I don't know that Ace is going to be diving into the wonderful world of romance. But if Hadley is going to recommend it and she's going to recommend it for Griz's book club maybe, I think maybe like Sierra Simone's New Camelot series. That's also one of my absolute favorites, so there's juxtaposition there. But yeah, something that's really going to get in there.
PR: I can completely see Hadley doing that. All right, Victoria, it has been such a fun time speaking with you today about the Bourbon Boys and about Bourbon & Proof. And listeners, you can get Victoria Wilder's Bourbon Boys series on Audible now. Happy listening.
VW: Thank you.
