Melissa Etheridge reveals the spiritual path that saved her in *Talking to My Angels*

Note: Text has been edited and does not match audio exactly.

Madeline Anthony: Hello, I'm Audible editor Madeline Anthony, and I could not be more thrilled to be here today with the truly iconic rock star, Melissa Etheridge. Etheridge has won Grammys, Oscars, and has had chart-topping hits since the early '90s. Today we're sitting down to discuss her forthcoming memoir, Talking to My Angels. Melissa, welcome. Thank you for joining us.

Melissa Etheridge: Thanks. Thank you so much. It's a real pleasure to be with you.

MA: So, before I get started on the questions, I just have to say, I read your first memoir, like, forever ago. And you were the only out lesbian celebrity that I was aware of as a young girl, and it had such an impact on me. I've really loved your music since, so I'm just so excited to be having this conversation.

ME: Thank you. That really means a lot. Every time I hear that, it totally does mean so very much to me. Thank you.

MA: Of course. I guess I'll start there and ask, how has the process of writing this memoir differed from the process of writing that first memoir all those years ago?

ME: [laughs] Well, the main difference is I have lived so much more life. And, you know, when you reach your sixties, you will see how different being in your thirties and in your sixties are. Life has a way of ... coming at you, and the decisions you make, the choices you make, [they] make all the difference in the world. This memoir really reflects how I changed my choices and how that changed my life.

MA: Oh, wow. What do you mean by changing your choices? I'm curious about that.

ME: Well, we all have choice in everything. And mostly, it's the choice of how we feel. You know, gosh, something can happen to me. I mean ... two of the biggest things were when I was diagnosed with cancer and then also when my son passed away from an opioid overdose. When I received my cancer diagnosis, I could have folded up and said, "Oh my god, that's it, I'm dying," and gone down that road, or choose the path that I did, which was of health and understanding my body and understanding stress in my body. And also when my son passed, I could've just been overcome with guilt and shame, and I had a choice. And I chose not to. I chose to use this experience to maybe help others and other families who are going through this.

MA: Yeah. I want to acknowledge how deeply personal the story is that you're telling here with this memoir and really offer my deepest condolences for, I'm sure, a truly unimaginable loss.

ME: Thank you.

"When I see how much my own thoughts and emotions create my reality, create what's in front of me, there's a real power in that."

MA: You say in the audiobook many times that the story is not about death, and rather that it's more about the power of spirit and how that connection to spirit ultimately helped you recover from the loss of your child. For listeners who haven't yet heard your memoir, how would you say your way of moving through the world has changed now that you are living in spirit?

ME: Oh. [laughs] It is a practice. It is a slow, day-to-day unfolding and understanding of how this glorious creation works. And when I see how much my own thoughts and emotions create my reality, create what's in front of me, there's a real power in that. When you move past the ... blaming—It's my fault I had cancer. It's my fault my son—you know, all these things. When you move past that and go, "No, there's no one at fault," this is how it works, and there's a lot of power in it. And it has enriched my life. Oh, it has. It has made me so happy, and my happiness is deeper and more fulfilling than I ever would've imagined.

MA: You share the story, which I really appreciated, in the audiobook about the heroic dose of cannabis that acted as this catalyst for change, which helped you move into this different state of being. So, what would you say to people who want to make that spiritual connection, who feel a pull but aren't quite there yet? What steps can be taken towards that deeper understanding of spirit?

ME: Plant medicine is one way to get there—if that's your choice. It's not the only way, absolutely. There are medications. But I would say to them that it's not a place that you get to—there's not a, “Oh, she's there, and she's not.” It is a constant practice. If you've ever done yoga, it's the same sort of thing. There's not a place where you get to and go, "Okay, I've mastered it. I've got yoga—that's it." You're constantly practicing yoga, and it's the practice that brings about the good health and the good feeling. And that's the same with your own spiritual path—you practice it. Something happens and instead of blaming or taking shame, you say, "Okay, this happened. I'm gonna make a choice here now how I'm going to respond."

MA: Mm-hmm.

ME: You know, if someone pushes me, I'm not gonna push back. I'm gonna go, "Okay, wait, that push, I'm grateful for that push because it made me see this." And gratitude ... It's just a slow path and there's many—whatever you're drawn to is right for you. There's no right or wrong.

MA: So, it's more trusting your instincts ...

ME: Absolutely. That's what it's all about—knowing your inner being, your instincts. You know, we call it all kinds of different things. But to me, it's your inner being. It's that conversation you have with yourself when you go, "No, this feels best. This is the best feeling."

MA: Do you feel like you're always aware of your inner being but you didn't really, I don't know ... you didn't give it the attention it had deserved? Or do you feel like in [the} course of spiritual awakening over the past many years, you kind of realized that you have this inner state of being?

ME: Well, being a creator, being a writer and a musician, I was already heavily into more of the intuitive side. When you create, when you are a writer, you understand how you can take a thought, take, oh wow, something that comes to you, something that comes from nowhere to you. And you put it down. So, I understood that from a very young age that there was a stream, something that wasn't in my very conscious problem-solving consciousness, you know? It was somewhere else that I was receiving it. And then as you grow, you know that intuition or that voice that says, "You know what? Let’s get out of here now. You know, [laughs] this is not good," or—

MA: Yeah. [laughs]

ME: Or, "Hey, let's go over there, I like that. I like this. I like that." That voice that says, "I like this. I like that." When we get away from that, that's when we do things we don't like or things that are against what we really believe or what we really want. That's when you are furthest from that inner being. And so, again, it's the practice of just being more in tune with that.

MA: One of the first things I noticed about this audiobook is that it really is one of those stories that's truly made so much more powerful by audio because—obviously, you narrate it yourself—but as you tell the stories that make up your life, you kind of interweave the songs that you wrote at the time these events were happening. And I really appreciated it as someone who loves your music because it really got me into that mental state that you were in when you were writing these songs. I'm wondering, what made you decide to insert your music directly into the book like that?

ME: I know that my lyrics, well, they're very personal. And I know that they speak sometimes in a way that just my telling a story can't really speak. That place where I can connect musically, not just my voice, not just speaking, but musically. It's a special step that, like you said, it opens you up to receive more, to understand more. And so, it just seemed to totally make sense to include some of the lyrics and then to, on the audiobook, to record it and sing it.

MA: You rerecorded all the songs for the audiobook, right?

ME: Oh yeah, I did it right after I recorded all the narration. I picked up my guitar and went back through and just did all the little pieces.

MA: Yeah. I really like the new version of “Down to One.” I really like that.

ME: Ah, [laughs] thank you.

"I think I've definitely moved myself out of that thought that I had to be something for someone else, because that's another thing that will cause you great pain and stress—to try to be something for someone else, to try to get other people to like you."

MA: So, how did it feel to narrate the book? Was it cathartic? I'm curious.

ME: Oh my gosh. I think everyone should narrate their book. [laughs] Because you learn so much and, you know what it is? When you write a memoir, you have to really pick your truth. You have to really pick, “Okay, this is how I'm going to tell this story, even though there's so much more to it." And there always is. It's never, like, the final, final truth. It's how I remember it, it’s how I want it out there, but then, man, when you go back and read it, it's just ... [laughs] One, it's exhausting!

MA: [laughs]

ME: But two, it's very enlightening, and it sort of puts my past in my past. I feel like, look, “Bam! There you go.” There, I've said it. There it is. Now I can move on.

MA: And did you feel differently with the first memoir?

ME: Yeah, we didn't have audiobooks back then. And I wrote it, and I've never read it again. So [laughs] it's very much behind me.

MA: Actually, in the memoir, you mention throughout your life—in your partnership with Julie and also in your marriage to Tammy—that you felt this enormous pressure to model a perfect gay family, being that there are so few examples out there. Do you still feel this pressure now?

ME: No. I think I've definitely moved myself out of that thought that I had to be something for someone else, because that's another thing that will cause you great pain and stress—to try to be something for someone else, to try to get other people to like you. My favorite saying now is, "What other people think about me is none of my business." [laughs]

MA: [Laughs]

ME: So, I really let that go. And I hope I can be a good example for whoever, but, you know, I just, I gotta live my life and live with the choices I made.

MA: You've been an activist for a really long time—campaigning with Clinton, outspoken advocate for gay rights, for environmental causes as well. So, as a young gay person, I'm really curious ... As someone who moved into adulthood at such a different time, and you're now witnessing the state of the world as it is today with... this intense backlash. As of last month, the HRC found more than 520 anti-LGBTQ bills currently introduced into state legislatures across the country. Women are losing their bodily autonomy, with most abortion banned in 14 states. What do you have to say to the younger generation when it comes to these issues? Do you think we're still headed in the same direction?

ME: Yeah. Yes, yes we are always headed in the right direction. We are always expanding. The reason there is so much of this is because we are expanding. And it is scaring people. People get scared with change. Change is the biggest fear. And there are those in power who realize, "Oh, I can fan these flames of fear, of fear of the other." You know, people are coming to the forefront and showing that this is what America is made of. There are those who think that the best thing is a white man to make all the rules, and we're gonna follow that because that's what they've been comfortable with, that's what they know.

I've lived long enough now to see that this happens. They push all the laws, and they do all this, and, ultimately, our courts come back and say, "No, you can't do this.” [laughs] You know, that's not what the Constitution says. It’s everybody—not just who you're comfortable with. So, I have always expressed and emphasized that the best thing you could do is to come out, is to be 100 percent yourself, to be a good, sharing human being and citizen of this country. That is what brought the greatest changes to start with, you know? So that the people then know, "Oh, that person down the street, oh, they're gay, and, oh, they're nice. That person I work with; they're gay. Oh, my cousin. Oh, wow, that's in my family now." That's where the power is; that's where the comfort for people is. You change hearts and minds that way.

MA: Yeah, I see what you're saying. So, just kind of continue on the path that we're on.

ME: Mm-hmm.

MA: You talk about when you were young, making the decision to use your mental energy only on creating music. And I actually paused when I was listening to write that down, because I found that to be such a powerful statement. I guess my question to you is, do you feel like the only way to make it creatively is to not have a plan B?

ME: [Laughs] I don't think that that's a rule that can go for everyone. I think it's a very individual situation.

MA: Okay.

"I think that all of us have creativity. We’re constantly creating. ... If you enjoy your day job, it's probably going to make your writing easier. Because you are in an elevated state of joy. And that's where you create from."

ME: I think that all of us have creativity. We’re constantly creating. We don't know we are, but we are. And that's the name of the game. So, to get deeper into it and create music or prose or poetry, lyrics or film, or these things that are created from our so-called imagination. The answer to that is about how you feel.

If you feel, "Okay, I can't have a plan B, but oh my god, how am I gonna make it? I'm not gonna make it," you're not gonna make it. You know, make it as in create whatever you wanna create. If you enjoy your day job, it's probably going to make your writing easier. Because you are in an elevated state of joy. And that's where you create from. So, it's all about how you feel—no matter what you're doing. If you're in a job and you're hating it because you're like, "Oh, I'm not gonna be able to work," or whatever it is that you're not enjoying, that's going to affect your writing. So, you gotta get in the good-feeling place.

MA: Yeah.

ME: Whatever that is, then write. If it's like, "Nope, I'm gonna go sell my house and live in a van and I'm gonna write." If that makes you happy, go do it.

MA: Yeah, okay. So, you know, you've been putting out music since the '80s—16 records under your belt. Maybe there's more by now. [laughs]

ME: Yeah.

MA: And you've recently had a theater debut, which will be premiering on Broadway in the fall. So I'm curious, how did you find writing a memoir different from these other mediums, of writing music and working in the theater?

ME: [Laughs] It's very different. Writing a song, that's like three or four minutes, and so I can edit it down to just where it's 10 words that I'm really working with, you know? [laughs] Or something like that. And I can write, and then I can move on to the next one. Doing the theatrical, one-woman show that we're doing, that was a little more, uh, structured for me. And so that was a little different, a little more “work,” as I would call it.

MA: [laughs]

ME: Then, in the book, that was like a cross-country trip. You know, [laughs] that was like, "Wow, I've gotta ... How do I want to tell 60 years of my life in a few hundred pages?" And to really walk that, and it took a couple years of really finding the story. What is it I wanna say? Because I know what's important to me. Spirit is important and the changes I've made, you know, how I got through these things. This is what's important. And so, it was a lot. Yeah, that's why I'll only have books every now and then. [laughs]

MA: In your memoir, you mention some favorite reads and some authors that were especially influential to you. What are you listening to right now that you would recommend to our listeners? If you had to recommend one book to Audible listeners, what would it be?

ME: Oh my goodness. Every time someone asks me that, everything goes out of my head. And I always, I'll be reading or listening to something going, "Okay, remember this because the next time someone asks you, you're gonna say this." And I never do.

Well if the lesbians are listening, I would say—

MA: I think they are. [laughs]

ME: Okay! [laughs] I would say Jeanette Winterson, anything—

MA: Oh, she's my favorite! Oh my god. Written on the Body is my favorite of hers.

ME: Oh. That is so ... Her books just took me somewhere. Oranges Aren't the Only Fruit.

MA: Yep.

ME: Written on the Body is definitely my favorite, yes.

MA: Oh my god, yes. Wow.

ME: Yeah. Now I wanna go reread it again. So yeah, I would say that. And even if you're not a lesbian, it's an amazing—she's an amazing author. To write a book and you never know if it's a boy or a girl.

MA: Oh my god. Incredible.

ME: It's just ... it's just brilliant.

MA: What's incredible is I was talking about Written on the Body with a friend of mine right after I finished it, and I hadn't even realized that it was gender-neutral all the way through. You know, it was just, yeah, incredible.

So, on another question for the lesbians ... In preparation for this interview, I read an article where you said that the creator of The L Word was inspired by your pool parties in the '90s, and I gotta know if that's true! And, if so, if any of the characters were based on you. I gotta know this!

ME: [Laughs] Okay. Now, I knew Ilene Chaiken and hung out with her a lot. And I have never heard her say, "Oh, it's based on these people." So, I'm just imagining. I'm not saying ...

MA: [Laughs]

ME: But the minute I saw Shane, I was like, "Oh, wow. Okay. [laughs] You know, that's very close to my life." Back then.

MA: Oh, wow. Oh, wow. That's incredible.

ME: [laugh] Back then. Back then.

MA: Melissa Etheridge is the OG Shane McCutcheon. I'm gonna—that's the new headline for this article! [laughs]

ME: [laughs]

MA: That's incredible!

ME: Again, she might say, "Oh no." Whatever. But I could see a lot of ... You know, those were really crazy times. Really wonderful times that we had. Really some amazing [laughs] parties. Yes, we did.

MA: Wow. Wow.

ME: [laughs]

MA: That's so great to know. Of course, you say an entire book doesn't come close to capturing a life. So, I'm wondering: Is there anything you didn't include in the book that you would want to share with an audience now, or you think you might write about in the future?

ME: Hmm. Well, I don't know. I think that has to be thought about in the future, when I look back and go, "Well, you know, maybe that, maybe I would want people to know more about ... the process, my work process, my creative process." You know, what it's really like, you know, deeper into being a mother or just a woman in her sixties in the entertainment business, you know? I mean, [laughs] there's all kinds of things I can go deeper on.

I'm just delighted to speak with you, so [that people] just enjoy the book, enjoy the audiobook—enjoy them both! [laughs] And, you know, I'll see you in 10, 20 years when I do another one. [laughs]

MA: That's perfect. I will say on the way here, just before we wrap up, I listened to your new single, “Juliet.”

ME: Oh, yeah.

MA: I'm curious: Who or what inspired that song?

ME: Oh wow, see that's from ... well, I wrote that when I was about 19.

MA: Oh, wow!

ME: And it was when I was in Boston, and it was the first lesbian bar I was in.

MA: Cool.

ME: I went to a lesbian bar in Boston. I was trying to go to college, but that didn't work out, and so I spent a lot of time there. It was about a woman in the bar.

MA: Ah, okay.

ME: I speak about that in my Broadway show, and I do the song. And, you know, when I made my first record—well, the first four records—I wasn't out. So, I didn't include that song, that song got kinda left behind ... I love that I kinda resurrected it and recorded it and had a good time.

MA: Oh, wow. Do you have, like, a whole kind of backlog of songs that you wrote but never released?

ME: Oh, yeah.

MA: Wow!

ME: Yeah, back before I had kids, I wrote all the time. You know, [I] just was, like, constantly writing. And yes, I have a lot of songs. [laughs]

MA: Wow, that's awesome! Well, I'll look out for them. Thank you so much for joining me today and for sharing so much of your life with us. And listeners, you can find Talking to My Angels on Audible now.