In many respects, this is the cornerstone of the American dream: You can be anything if you dream it! But what happens when the path to actualizing that dream means creating a nightmare for others?

What was interesting to you about this story from the perspective of your background as a sociologist?

Much of my work as a sociologist has been on identity and how we construct and perform it. Which makes the story of Ethan Schuman that much more intriguing to me as a social scientist.

My research and the focal point of my dissertation was on what I termed “aspirational identity”—trying on identities by going beyond our existing biography to reflect how we view ourselves and how we aspire to be perceived. In other words: changing our appearance can change our reality, especially in the age of technology, where perception is often the reality that is believed and rewarded.

As a sociologist, I look at the roles we want to play, not just our current position in life. This can be very liberating—or, as is the case with Ethan Schuman, horrifying. Meeting “Ethan” was like a real-world way of testing the limits of my hypothesis. In many respects, this is the cornerstone of the American dream: You can be anything if you dream it! But what happens when the path to actualizing that dream means creating a nightmare for others? When does actualizing your own idealized self cross an ethical line? And of course, in this story, the idea of ethics becomes even more front-and-center once you learn more about the identity of the person behind Ethan Schuman.

When we manipulate our own identities, we also manipulate others. We all do this to varying degrees via changes to our appearance or what we strategically omit from our online profiles or resumes. But when is that ok, and when does it cross a line? What are the ethics around that?

There’s been a recent surge of interest in toxic relationship stories, from viral sagas like West Elm Caleb and “Who TF Did I Marry?” to investigative podcasts like The Girlfriends and Exposed. What do you think is behind this fascination, and how do you think content creators can balance the helpfulness in educating folks about potential warning signals (as well as the obvious entertainment value) vs. the potential harm in opening up private behavior to public scrutiny?

I’m sure you’ve heard: The internet is a vicious place! So, sharing stories like this opens victims up to trolling and online hate. For some victims, they are also terrified their abusers will retaliate if they speak out. Even when it’s not rational, that fear can be crippling and psychologically terrorizing.

Another challenge is telling the story honestly, while knowing some might accuse you of sensationalizing your experience or the experience of other victims. As a social scientist, I try to be mindful of this: How can I represent the stories of others (and in this case, also myself) in a way that makes it readable and relatable and engaging, but always stays true to the narrative?

Some critics might argue there’s subjectivity in storytelling, getting into a sort of he said/she said situation. Even as a sociologist, there is a qualitative component. But the remarkable twist in this story is EVERYTHING is documented. There’s no room for fabricating anything. These are actual words exchanged, not vague memories. I think that makes it all the more powerful.

This is not the stuff of “other” people. We are all complicit in creating a world in which “truth” in identity and self-representation is a slippery concept thanks to technology.

What did you learn in the course of this experience that could help other people avoid online romance fraud, especially as it becomes increasingly sophisticated and rampant?

Meeting sooner than later is definitely helpful. Thankfully, things have evolved a lot since when I met Ethan. But that being said, I have no doubt there are people who find ways of establishing intimacy quickly, then manufacture delays. And with the use of AI, so many of the hurdles Ethan faced in perpetuating his lies are now easier to overcome.

I wouldn’t say any of us did anything naive or gullible; we were hawks, investigating as we went along. Which is just to say that it can happen to anyone who is putting themselves out there and taking a chance on love and connection. If you do find yourself in a situation like that (or if someone you love does), don’t be too hard on yourself (or them).

I don’t doubt myself or my sanity, nor do I blame myself for what happened. Despite being victimized by Ethan, I have chosen not to live like a victim or give them power by changing how I live and love due to that incident. I hope others with similar experiences—either being conned or finding themselves in toxic partnerships—will feel empowered to do the same.

What do you ultimately hope listeners take away from There Is No Ethan?

Dating and connecting require calculated vulnerability, and I believe love is worth the risk. Relationships matter, and meeting online is a reality for many of us. If you aren’t meeting someone in school or at work or through friends, then the internet is a practical way to connect. There’s no shame in that.

Regardless of your vantage point as a listener, please know: This is not the stuff of “other” people. We are all complicit in creating a world in which “truth” in identity and self-representation is a slippery concept thanks to technology. Ethan was very clever in how he constructed his identity, and many listeners may recognize that a lot of those tactics are rewarded on social media and in internet marketing. Which means we all need to ask ourselves: Where do we draw the line?