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Rachael Xerri: Hello, I'm Audible Editor Rachel Xerri, and I'm here today with adventurer and bestselling author Bear Grylls to talk about his latest listen, . You may also know Bear from one of his hit shows such as Man vs. Wild and Running Wild, among others. Welcome, Bear Grylls.
Bear Grylls: Hi there. Nice to be with you.
RX: It's fantastic to be with you. So, Bear, if I had to summarize your new listen, I would say it's a bit like listening to Mr. Rogers, but if Mr. Rogers had traversed through some of the world's most amazing and treacherous terrains. In your own words, how would you describe You vs. the World?
BG: Well, you're kind. I appreciate it. You know, for me, it was always going to be the title. Because I think for so many young people right now, life is tough. I think there's more anxiety out there than ever before, there're more challenges, there're more obstacles, there's more competition. And You vs. the World sums it up for me. I've always wanted to write a guide for young people for how to help them to never give up in the big moments, how to be able to follow their dreams, and not listen to the dream stealers that life is full of. How to handle difficult situations for them, maybe when they're at school, whether it's dealing with bullies or whether it's dealing with social media. How to find the courage inside to deal with failure because, again, that is something that all of us, we're going to encounter if we're going to follow our dreams in life.
And I think so often school doesn't always prepare people brilliantly for that. I think often young people now grow up quite risk-adverse, and they try and avoid failure because it makes us look or feel vulnerable. But actually, as you know, failure is such a key part of getting to the good stuff in life. So, it's these sort of things. It's a handbook, as they said, "The ultimate no-nonsense guide to taking on the world." That's how I always wanted this to be. It's simple, and I hope, ultimately, that it's empowering and helps people deal with some of those worries and fears that so often we see around us in young people at the moment. But as you know, life doesn't have to be like that. Life is incredible. Life can be a great adventure. It's just sometimes we need the right tools and the right equipment, if you like, to be able to tackle it.
"Failure is such a key part of getting to the good stuff in life."
So that is what You vs. the World is. I really hope it helps and empowers people. And actually already we've had so many incredible letters from people, and emails and on social media, just saying, "Bear, out of all the books you done, this is the best." So do you know what, I take that. I'm super grateful. We saw it went to number one in the Amazon bestseller list yesterday, which was really exiting. And like I say, I'm proud of this, really proud of it.
RX: You should be so proud. And this listen is written for school-age children, although I personally feel that everyone can benefit from it. It's such a bite-sized treasure trove of great life advice. And I know you've talked a bit about why it's important for you to write for such an audience with this message of never giving up or, as you refer to it in the audiobook, NGU. I'm wondering if you can expand a bit on what NGU means?
BG: If I had to look at all the things I've gone through in life, all the experiences, all the adventures, all the wins, all the losses, the successes, the failures, the triumphs, the disasters, I think if I had to boil it down to one key quality that I could take forward to tackle those things, it wouldn't be talent because sometimes there's talent, sometimes there isn't. I never felt I had very much talent, to be honest. It wouldn't be knowledge because, again, I think some people have knowledge, some people don't. You can gain knowledge. You forget knowledge. It wouldn't necessarily be skills. There are a lot of super talented and super skilled people out there who'd never get far with actually trying to follow their own path and their own dreams and the stuff they really want to do. I would say it'd be none of those things. It would be having that winning, survivor attitude. And I think NGU, that thing of never give up, is the beating heart of a great attitude. It's the beating heart of what keeps people alive when the chips are down in the jungle and they're lost. And it's the beating heart of what helps people achieve in life.
It's a great quote that says, "All the good stuff lies on the other side of pain, failure, doubt, struggle, and fear." It's just most people never push through that stuff. They get one of those obstacles pop up and they retreat and they look for another route. But again, as you know, there is no shortcut. There's no shortcut to our dreams in life. You've got to take that rocky road, and it's going to be a road that's going to have many failures and many doubts and fears and struggles on it. But number one to get through it all is having that NGU spirit, that never-give-up, that tenacious, never-say-die, resolute determination and resilience. Lot of different names for it, but it's the same thing, it's never-give-up spirit. That's the key, and it's also in all of us. That's the other thing. It's not like something only some people have. We all have it. It's like a muscle inside, that NGU muscle. And it gets strong by using it, like all muscles. It gets strong when we fail and we get back up and we go again. But we all have it. It's that fire inside, and it's God-given, and it wants to used.
RX: Absolutely. Now, you write about your challenges meeting expectations in school as a child, and perhaps that should've been everyone's first clue that you had an insatiable curiosity for adventure. Was there anything that surprised you, or that you discovered about yourself, or rather your childhood self, while you were writing You vs. the World?
BG: Well, it was a reminder of, actually, it wasn't all easy. The struggles is where we develop our strength. And I look back and so much of my time as a kid and at school was just a struggle. I wasn't the best. I wasn't the fastest. I wasn't the cleverest. I wasn't the strongest. I was shy. You wouldn't spot me in a crowd. But sometimes school celebrates the wrong people. School celebrates often the sporty or the person who wins all the cups or the cleverest or the loudest or the best-looking guy or girl, you know? Those things somehow, when you're a kid, they count for so much. But as we know, in life, the currency of those things isn't very strong. And those things don't mean a lot. And I think one of the dangers of being too brilliant at school too easily is that you don't learn any of the really important stuff, which is the stuff that's going to help you tackle the really big mountains you're going to encounter once you leave school and hit life. And that's all about that inner muscle, not the outer muscle. That's all about the NGU muscle inside you. Not the big biceps or the good looks or the A grades.
"I think one of the dangers of being too brilliant at school too easily is that you don't learn any of the really important stuff, which is the stuff that's going to help you tackle the really big mountains you're going to encounter once you leave school and hit life."
It's not so much about whether you're clever or sporty. It's about how easily things come. And if things come too easily, and often it's like that for the superstars at school. They're the superstars, they're the sportiest, they're the cleverest, not always through effort, but most of the time just because they're naturally like that. And they might get those A grades, but actually because it's almost effortless, that inner muscle doesn't get very well trained. All the focus and all the spotlight stays on that guy, the superstar, but meanwhile, little Johnny on the side, who isn't always picked for everything and it's a struggle, everything's a struggle, and still he doesn't get picked, and he might not get the A grades, and he might not even be in the fifth eleven let alone the first eleven. And nobody really notices him, but he keeps turning up on time and doing his best and trying to be kind and determined and, as the Scouts say, to do your best, that DYB, DYB, DYB, do your best.
And Johnny keeps doing that, and at the end of school, he might still not have the triumphs and the trophies, but he's got the one thing that matters, which is a strong inner resilience. And that's a guy or the girl that often does his best in life. And how often do we hear these stories of the people who done well in life struggle at school, struggle when they're younger. And it's like, don't peak too early. You don't need to peak too early. Just know the things that are going to count, what has currency in life, and it's always about the simple winning survivor attitudes. Being determined, being positive, being kind, being resilient. And that's the currency of life.
RX: I love that. So, on that note, what advice do you have for educators or other parents—I know you're also a dad—especially parents to kids who are a bit like you were as a kid?
BG: I think just reward the right stuff. Don't reward the effortless brilliance. Reward the effort, effort, effort. And also the unsung heroes. Those who keep going and do their best and show that effort but don't necessarily win. Reward that. Reward effort. Reward the unsung heroes, and reward the kind. You know, because those things hold all the currency in life. And the thing of kindness, it's hard to emphasize it enough how important it is, and young people don't necessarily realize how beautiful and powerful and brilliant kindness is. Because, again, school's busy celebrating those school superstars. But when you see any people just doing something unseen, unsung, and kind to somebody when they need it most in a big moment, it's really beautiful and it's worth more than any cup or any trophy or any A grade.
For any young people listening to this, as you get older, you'll realize this more and more. You'll look back and you'll remember your school days, and you'll remember, "Do you know what? That guy or that girl we didn't take enough maybe notice of her. She wasn't noticed enough or celebrated enough, but do you know what? She was just, or he was just, a good guy. Just a good person. Was kind. Was never an ego. Was never trying to show off. Was always kind, always helping other people ahead of themselves." And you'll look back and you'll think, "Wow, that holds so much value, and I'll never forget that."
Nowadays, when I sometimes bump into friends I was at school with, who fall into that category, they weren't a superstar but they were just quiet and kind and had the courage to follow what they really loved, however quirky it was, however much maybe people laughed at it because it wasn't mainstream but they really loved it, when I meet people like that, I always say to them, "Do you know what? You were amazing at school. You were an example of how I wish I could've been, I wish so many more people could've been. You actually were the heroes of school."
And therefore, for young people, as you're listening to this and you're doing your journey through school, be kind and be determined and follow your own path on things. If you really want to be, I don't know, maybe it's a lighting technician for the school play. You know, might not be the main character at the front, but do what you love. Find what you love. Maybe it's the piano. Maybe it's juggling. Maybe it's going running. Maybe it's making camps in the woods. Maybe it is football. Whatever it is, follow your thing. Because it's what ultimately is going to make you happy and it's ultimately what's going to help remind other people what a good guy or good girl you are. People love to be with people who love what they do and are kind to other people.
RX: On the subject of kindness, that was actually my favorite chapter of You vs. the World. Specifically, when you talk about the role of kindness in success. I think many have this view of success as being quite cut-throat and ruthless. How has kindness informed your own career?
BG: When I look back on the moments people have shown unseen, unsung little acts of kindness, it stays with you for a lifetime. It really does. I think back to one of my sergeants in the army. Toughest guy I knew. He was actually tragically killed in Afghanistan a few years ago, but I'll never forget being in the desert with him once and we were waiting for an extraction by helicopter, and it couldn't get in because of a whole bunch of factors, weather and all of this. And we ended up having to wait a few days and we were out of water in the desert. Bad situation. And then we had a long march on foot to reach our extraction point, many tens of miles. And we were rationing the last dregs of our water, literally capful by capful. Every six hours one little capful. And I remember at the end of that march, we're still a long way and I was really struggling. Really, I was hallucinating. I was in a really bad way but we had to keep going. And I'll never forget my sergeant, Chris Carter, incredible man. It was dark and he just said, "Okay, time for our last capful of water." We'd been rationing, this was our last capful. And everyone took their sip of it. And he quietly, without anyone else seeing, he made me drink his last capful of water.
"When you see any people just doing something unseen, unsung, and kind to somebody when they need it most in a big moment, it's really beautiful and it's worth more than any cup or any trophy or any A grade."
And that act, that kindness, gave me the strength to complete it and to keep going and to keep carrying those heavy weights, all that ammunition in the backpacks, and for the last few miles in to where we were eventually evacuated. And I’ll never forget it. I’ll never forget it. It wasn't the water that gave me the strength. It was his one kind deed. And you know, Chris might not be alive today, but his memory lives on, and I will never forget that man and that deed. And, yeah, that's a powerful thing for me to remember.
RX: Thank you for sharing that story. I think it's such a beautiful way to honor your friend, and I'm so sorry for your loss. The other quality that I'm hearing come out of that story, of course, is perseverance, which you also talk about in this audiobook. And you talk about several times during your life when you've had to persevere. You've commented on your parachuting accident, which you had to heal from, and ultimately you held on to this goal of being one of the youngest climbers to summit Mount Everest. And this whole portion of the audiobook is so inspiring. I'm so curious, was there someone in your life who was guiding you? Where do you think that inner perseverance comes from?
BG: So, like I said, the more we use that inner muscle, the stronger it gets. My dad, my late dad, was a real one for this. And I look back, and he's no longer alive now, and I lost him too young, just way too young. It's just such a sadness, really, I think in many ways for me. But I also look back and think I was so lucky to have a really cozy, amazing dad who really encouraged me to go for things and to fail a lot and to, like we talked about, to be kind and to never give up. Those are the things that really mattered to him, much more than great school reports or great exam results. And I think there's so much pressure for young people that you have to perform at school. But not everyone's great at school. School is very linear. It's not a reflection of life. Just because you don't fit into the mold of school doesn't mean you can't thrive in life. And school doesn't spend a lot of time teaching about these skills of going for things and not listening to the dream stealers and all of this stuff we've been speaking about. It's the most important lesson to learn, and we learn it from different people. We all stand on the shoulders of giants. Like I say, my dad was definitely a giant for me in that sense. Always cared more about the important things than just the school things.
But whoever that giant might be for you, always be grateful for that. Because it's so important. It's why the Scouts do such a brilliant job. You know, there's 57 million Scouts now around the world, and they give young people from every background and every country those life skills. That sense of “You can do it.” You know, you can do it. You've got to do your best. You've got to be a team player, be kind, but you can do it. And equipping young people with practical skills as well, and attitude skills and relationship skills, how to be a great friend to people. That's such a key one, and it's right up there as well, being a great friend to people. You know, people go, "How do you get a friend?" Well, you be a friend. Be that kind, good friend to people when it really matters, when the chips are down, when that person really needs you, and they'll never forget it.
"Success without humility isn't success."
So, I look back and I think, yeah, my dad, and a few people in the Scouts helped me so much as well, and the proudest thing I do in my life now to be chief Scout and chief ambassador to these 57 million Scouts around the world. And I'm proud of it because it gives young people those vital skills of life. And finally, it's also why I'm so proud of our education initiative called Becoming X, which is all about, again, providing the life skills that school doesn't always provide. Trying to be demystify success for young people and give them practical, real tools that are going to help them to get ahead. You know, how to be a leader, how to be a great team player. So check out that as well. It's called Becoming X, and it's doing amazing, inspiring stuff around the world. And the team that run that are phenomenal. So all these things, whatever it is, whether it's You vs. the World or Scouts or Becoming X, all the same purpose: empowering, empowering, empowering young people to be able to get out there and go for it and live life boldly, live it kindly, live it with tenacity.
RX: Excellent advice. Another quality that you really exhibit and that you also discuss in You vs. the World is humility. But you're also someone who's accomplished a great deal. A standout moment from the audiobook is when you describe playing ping-pong with Roger Federer on the side of a mountain after having shared goo from a fish eyeball, or when you spent the day with Barack Obama. And while you're explaining these incredible moments, you're just so humble. You're never bragging. However, when you reflect on some of these accomplishments, I'm curious what sort of feelings come up for you? And how do you think your childhood self would feel about your accomplishments now?
BG: Well, I think the childhood self would look at a lot of things in my life and probably say two things. Probably, "Wow, you failed also a lot. You failed a lot along the way." And that is true. I have failed a lot. But people forget about the failures, and then they remember the highlights. Life is like a mix of summits and valleys, you know? And we're going to go through the valleys and the failures to get to the summits. But once you're at the summit you forget about the valley. People don't ask me a lot about the failures. They ask me about those great moments. You know, taking a US president into the wild, or I mean, we did one with President Zelensky of Ukraine recently, and Prime Minister Modi of India, and so many great people. But they come on the back of many failures, is what I feel.
But also, on the thing of humility, if you win something and you're the world champ, you're the best, but you're not humble, it undermines everything. You can be the best basketball player, the biggest pop star, whatever, the most famous person, but if you're cocky and you got a big head and you're full of yourself, it undermines everything. It means your achievement hasn't kind of really taught you anything of life. But yet, when you see people who've done really well but they're humble and they listen and give time to people who might not be able to give them a lot in return, it says so much.
So, I think, in terms of You vs. the World, if this is a how-to guide to go out there and smash it and do well and all of that, humility has to be right at the beating heart of it. Because it's what draws people to you and it's what gives your success authority. Because when you can succeed but you're humble, everybody will love you. And sometimes it takes a lifetime for people to realize this, but it's so true and it's so key, and it's a big part of success. Success without humility isn't success.
RX: So beautifully said. Now, if there's one thing your fans know about you it's that you're always on the move. What is the next adventure that you're really excited for?
BG: Yeah, always on the move. I like that. I think, first of all, life is a great adventure. It really is. It's a great privilege and never take it for granted. Ever since my parachuting accident all those years ago when I should've been paralyzed, I've never taken a day for granted. I'm always grateful, grateful for so much. So I do try and live like that, like always looking forward, not looking back too much. Always, always moving towards the good stuff.
And I feel like that to this day. We've just been filming the last season of Running Wild, so I've been home for a few days now with the family, which is great. We've just had the big Windsor Scout, first ever King's Scout Parade yesterday, which was amazing celebrating so many unsung heroes of the Scouts who flew in from all over the world and we celebrated them. And then I'm back onto the road for more Running Wild episodes.
We've got a new show as well coming out that we're announcing later this week, but, you know, always innovating, always trying to create more adventures with great friends. And I look at that and I'm so grateful for that, that I can have a job which is something I really love. I get to film these adventures with my best friends, who are the crew, who are incredible. Hardest working people you'll ever meet. Unsung heroes. Carry all the gear, do everything I do, but backwards. Amazing people. And I get to live those adventures, so always grateful for that. Always grateful for my family, which is the beating heart of everything. Three boys and Shara, my wife, and number one for me is adventures with them. Those are the best. We're always planning more of those. And always looking forward and always grateful.
RX: Thank you, Bear. It's been such a pleasure and an honor to speak with you today.
BG: Oh, so nice to speak to you. All the best to you.
RX: Likewise. And listeners, you can get You vs. the World by Bear Grylls on Audible now.
