Empires of Trust

How Rome Built - and America Is Building - a New World

By: Thomas F. Madden

Narrated by: Richard Poe

Length: 12 hrs and 25 mins

Publisher's summary

In Empires of Trust, Professor Thomas F. Madden explores surprising parallels between the Roman and American republics.

By making friends of enemies and demonstrating a commitment to fairness, the two republics - both "reluctant" yet unquestioned super-powers - built empires based on trust. Madden also includes vital lessons from the Roman Republic's 100-year struggle with "terrorism."

©2008 Thomas F. Madden (P)2008 Recorded Books,LLC

required reading

Awesome book, great survey of history and a reminder of how great and educated our founding fathers were.

Narration is terrific.

I liked this book so much that I bought 15 hard copies and gave them to the most influential people I know.

Understanding the concepts in this book (whether you agree or not) is a prerequisite to debating the relevant issues of today.

Alternative History

Thomas F. Madden has done us all a favor by reframing the current situation in the middle east as a repeat of the same type of struggle that erupted between Rome and the Jews. The eerily familiar terrorist tactics of the Siccarii and the incomprehensible internecine bloodshed that occurred from 144 BCE and 74 CE could have been lifted from the reader bar on CNN. Like Rome, the United States is appealed to for aid on all quarters and like Rome is universally reviled for providing it and even by the people to whom aid is rendered. You should get this book. Richard Poe does an outstanding job of narration.

Good book

I really enjoyed this book, it pretty much covers exactly what the description says it covers so no need to recap that here. I liked the story, I mostly liked the way everything was put together and the reader did a very good job.

I did knock off a star because;

1. the book feels a bit dated already. The author makes a number of comments that were current to the 2007-08 timeframe, not a huge deal but I think the author would have done better to make a more timeless book by just getting rid of the current examples

2. the book is a bit heavy handed at times trying to make sure you get the point that the author is making by using a lot of current examples. Anyone alive in the last decade can listen to the point and put 2 and 2 together very quickly, the author just makes sure you get that connection. It doesn't happen a lot but I certainly could have done without it.

So basically you'll probably like this book if you like the description. You'll probably hate this book if you think America should be thrown to the lions. I liked it.

A real eye opener

Before this book, I had many uninformed notions on Rome based on the movies and TV shows that only served to expand my ignorance. This book changed all that. I am amazed at the similarities between the first several hundred years of Rome, when it was a republic, and the United States up to this point. I am surprised at the changes (not always good) that come with an overall peace, and I was greatly interested at the relationship between Rome and Greece (much like our relationship -or obsession- with Western Europe).

As one who does not practice western religion, I found his coverage of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam to be very even handed... That is to say that this book will make them all either have a hard and logical internal look at themselves (not likely), or to have a purely emotional response and write the book off as tripe because it hurts their sensibilities (yeah, probably this).

It also weighs in against conservatives and liberals fairly equally. I am a relatively conservative person and had to take several moments to step back and digest the point of the discussion without letting my personal biases get in the way. Then the book was incredibly informative.

The writer writes in a very conversational tone that is easy to digest because it really connects with the listener. And the narrator fits the content perfectly.

Whoever you are, parts of this book are going to upset you. But if you can get past that and look at the information presented objectively, this is an excellent choice.

Interesting but too myopic

I found the premise of this book interesting and I agree with many of its concepts to varying degrees. However, I found the analysis of the expansion of the Roman empire to be far too simplistic and uniform - especially coming from such a scholarly writer - and the relentless comparison of the Roman and American spheres of influence as Empires of Trust reaches the point of monotony. In particular, the idea that the Romans were reluctant empire-builders is dubious at best - certainly not the consensus viewpoint of ancient scholars. Of particular interest, nevertheless, are the following: (1) the comparison of American and Roman morality and religious values (2) the comparison of Rome's relationship to to the Old World (Greece) to America's relationship with the Old World (Europe) and (3) the comparison of America's struggle against radical Muslim fundamentalism to Rome's war against radical Zionists. Whether or not one agrees with Prof. Madden's conclusions, this book is worth consideration.

Good history lesson

This book has excellent discussions of comparison and contrast between Rome and the USA. Gives some history and insight into the nature of Empires and the uniqueness between Rome and the USA. Absolutely a MUST for anyone's library!

Partial view of history facts

The author is highly egocentric in his portray of history; taking mostly the fact that may support his theories and easily rejecting others different opinions. The book is just one opinion that needed to be compares with others different expert opinion in order to get a better understanding. The book is about:
I am (the author) the source of correct history information and other sources are biases or not accurate. In resume the book is a very egocentric point of view of history.

My Pick, Book of the Year 2012

This book presents a theory of American exceptionalism. The exceptional thing about the book is that it’s the only theory of American Exceptionalism I've ever heard that is actually deep and thoughtful and has something important to say.

My summary of his theory is:

American exceptionalism is derivative from Roman exceptionalism. Over the last 2,000 years most chances at new governance have attempted to model the Roman republic. The difference is that the American founding fathers, unlike most revolutionaries, were quite educated. They spoke Latin and actually knew enough to have an approximately accurate understanding of Roman exceptionalism.

An interesting issue is that modern readers probably know far less about the Romans than John Adams. In fact, according to the author the modern pop culture story about the Romans is almost exactly the opposite of reality. He’s somewhat vague on why this is; ratings are part of the answer. He suggests that the long life of Greek propaganda about the Romans may also be a factor, or not.

In the end it doesn't matter if Joe Plumber understands that the things that make America great are linked to Rome. But it does matter that we not lose the values that made us great.

So which specific values does the author think lead to American exceptionalism. Read the book. But my observation on his list is that it’s everything and anything that is orthogonal to the left-right debate that dominates current American Politics.

Disappointing

I am a huge fan of Roman history and I liked Madden's lectures in Odyssey of the West and Upon this Rock; however, this book was a difficult to complete. The portions that describe Rome are interesting, but Madden constantly beats you with his Empire of Trust thesis. In Madden's words, Empire of Trust is 'hyperbole masquerading as argument.'

If you are interested in Roman history check out The Modern Scholar: A History of Ancient Rome by Titchener. She presents a similar argument minus the thesis beating.

Dull

I thought this was going to be a great book. The first chapter shows such great promise. Unfortunately, the book is a as dull as a one note song. Each chapter makes the same point. Each chapter begins with some Roman history, which is superficially connected to American history or current events, and concludes with the same point. Over and over again.