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In this episode of the Nature Recovery Podcast, Stephen Thomas speaks with Lee White about a remarkable life working across science, conservation, and government in central Africa. Lee reflects on growing up in Uganda, studying rainforest ecosystems in West Africa and Gabon, and how his scientific work led him into national park creation, forest policy, and international climate negotiations.

The conversation explores why the gap between scientific evidence and political action remains so wide, and why forests need to be understood not only as ecosystems but as economic and geopolitical systems. Lee explains how Gabon tried to make standing forests economically valuable through protected areas, sustainable forestry, and REDD+, and why that model faced both successes and setbacks.

They also discuss the Congo Basin as a global climate system, the importance of local and international science capacity, and the role of nature in human health, resilience, and wellbeing. The episode ends with a broader reflection on what nature recovery really means, from restoring cities and farmland to thinking at a planetary scale.

The Leverhulme Centre for Nature Recovery is interested in promoting a wide variety of views and opinions on nature recovery from researchers and practitioners.

The views, opinions and positions expressed within this podcast are those of the speakers alone, they do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of the Leverhulme Centre for Nature Recovery, or its researchers.

The work of the Leverhulme Centre for Nature Recovery is made possible thanks to the support of the Leverhulme Trust.

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Hosted by Wallerand Bazin, a DPhil researcher in Geography and the Environment at Oxford whose work focuses on the political ecologies of climate and conservation in heritage landscapes.

In this episode of the Nature Recovery Podcast, Stephen Thomas and Wallerand Bazin speak with Guy Shrubsole about land ownership, stewardship, and the politics of nature recovery in Britain. Shrubsole traces the ideas behind Who Owns England?, The Lost Rainforest of Britain, and The Lie of the Land, and explains how his thinking developed through environmental campaigning, archival research, and fieldwork.

The conversation explores why land ownership remains so concentrated in England, why “stewardship” is often more rhetoric than reality, and why public funding for nature should be tied to stronger accountability. Shrubsole also discusses community land ownership in Scotland, the case for more transparency in land registry data, and how nature recovery needs to be understood through history, justice, and power as well as ecology.

The Leverhulme Centre for Nature Recovery is interested in promoting a wide variety of views and opinions on nature recovery from researchers and practitioners.

The views, opinions and positions expressed within this podcast are those of the speakers alone, they do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of the Leverhulme Centre for Nature Recovery, or its researchers.

The work of the Leverhulme Centre for Nature Recovery is made possible thanks to the support of the Leverhulme Trust.

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Professor Ian Mell discusses how green infrastructure has moved from the margins of planning into mainstream conversation. He explains the political, economic and cultural barriers to delivery in the UK, cautions about uncritical reliance on markets and offsets, and highlights lessons from Asian cities where ambitious, large-scale projects and data-driven delivery have driven visible change. The episode explores equity, climate adaptation, placemaking and how to combine technical valuation with everyday lived experience to make green infrastructure work for communities.

Guest
Ian Mell, Professor of Environmental and Landscape Planning, University of Manchester. Author of The Growing Green Infrastructure in Contemporary Asian Cities.

Host
Wendee Zhang, Postdoctoral researcher at Leverhulme Centre for Nature Recovery working on projects investigating the health/wellbeing benefits of urban green and blue spaces.

Key takeaways

• Green infrastructure is now part of national conversation but delivery and funding remain inconsistent across the UK.
• Economic valuation helps enter conversations with funders but cannot capture all environmental value. Markets and offsets need careful scrutiny.
• Asian cities provide rapid, large-scale experiments in GI that the UK can learn from, particularly on urban regeneration and converting failing infrastructure into green space.
• Lived experience matters. Simple design elements: shade, seating, lighting, bins, playgrounds; often determine whether green space is used and benefits well-being.
• Political will and long-term funding are essential. Short political cycles and fear of failure limit bold local investment.
• Climate adaptation and social justice must be addressed together to ensure equitable access to benefits.

You can also see Ian's lecture that he gave to the Leverhulme Centre for Nature Recovery here.

The Leverhulme Centre for Nature Recovery is interested in promoting a wide variety of views and opinions on nature recovery from researchers and practitioners.

The views, opinions and positions expressed within this podcast are those of the speakers alone, they do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of the Leverhulme Centre for Nature Recovery, or its researchers.

The work of the Leverhulme Centre for Nature Recovery is made possible thanks to the support of the Leverhulme Trust.