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What makes some states thrive while others trap people in place? And what does it really mean to be free to move, grow, and flourish?

In this episode, I talk with economist Justin Callais about the deep connections between personal fulfillment, economic mobility, and institutional quality. We begin with the personal: why real change starts internally, and how self-mastery and agency are prerequisites for meaningful, external progress. Then, we zoom out to ask: what kinds of systems make it easier for people to rise?

We explore questions like:

• What is economic mobility—and what does it look like in practice?
• Why is Utah the top-performing states on the Archbridge Institute’s Social Mobility Index, while Louisiana lags behind?
• How do factors like governance quality, opportunity, and freedom of movement shape people's life outcomes?
• What role do individuals, institutions, and state policies play in promoting (or restricting) upward mobility?

Justin Callais is the chief economist at the Archbridge Institute. He studies development economics, polycentric governance, and the institutional roots of freedom and flourishing.

If you’ve ever wondered why where you live matters—or what it takes to build a society where people can truly move up in life—this conversation is for you.

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Remember the Amazon HQ2 frenzy? When nearly every U.S. state competed to become Amazon’s next home, offering billions in tax breaks and incentives? I do — I grew up right next door to Crystal City, Virginia, the site Amazon ultimately chose.

In this episode, I talk with economist Peter Calcagno about targeted economic incentives—the controversial policy tool that fueled the Amazon HQ2 bidding war and countless other corporate deals.

We explore questions like:

• What are targeted incentives?
• Do they actually create economic development and job growth?
• Why do politicians favor targeted incentives over other tools?
• Who wins—and who loses—when states compete this way?

Peter Calcagno is a professor of economics at the College of Charleston and director of the Center for Public Choice and Market Process. He’s also a fellow at the American Institute for Economic Research, where he studies public choice theory and fiscal policy.

If you’ve ever wondered whether government subsidies for big business pay off—or if they just create unfair advantages—this conversation is for you.

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What if modern economics has overlooked what truly makes us human?

In this episode, Bart Wilson joins us to explore humanomics—an approach to economics that reintroduces meaning, culture, and moral judgment into how we understand economic behavior.

We talk about how economists miss the mark by assuming too much about how rational we really are—and too little about what it means to be human.

Wilson shares insights from his experimental work with non-human primates, showing how comparing monkey behavior to human decision-making can reveal deep truths about markets, cooperation, and fairness.

We explore big questions all economists should grapple with: What is humanomics, and how does it challenge traditional models? What makes human goals different from animal instincts? Can monkeys and other animals help us understand moral behavior in economics?

Bart Wilson is a professor of Economics and Law at Chapman University and the Director of the Smith Institute for Political Economy and Philosophy. He is the co-author (with Vernon Smith) of Humanomics and the author of Meaningful Economics. His research spans experimental economics, moral philosophy, and decision-making in both humans and non-human primates.

Join us for a wide-ranging and thought-provoking conversation about the future of economics, human nature, and what monkeys can teach us about meaning.

Want to explore more?

• Maria Pia Paganelli, "Humanomics: Moral Sentiments and Wealth of Nations for the Twenty-First Century," at Econlib.
• Vernon Smith on Markets and Experimental Economics, an EconTalk podcast.
• From the Shelf with Arnold Kling: Bart Wilson, Jack Hope, and Chris Martin, a discussion of Nichaol Raihani's The Social Instinct.
• Charles Noussair on Experimental Economics and Testing Institutions, a Great Antidote podcast.

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