Charles is a writer, social scientist, and longtime friend. He currently holds the F.A. Hayek Chair Emeritus in Cultural Studies at the American Enterprise Institute. His many books include Losing Ground, The Bell Curve (co-authored with Richard Herrnstein), Coming Apart, Facing Reality, and Human Diversity (which we discussed on the Dishcast in 2021). His new book is Taking Religion Seriously. If you think you know who Charles is from the way the MSM has described him for years, this conversation may surprise.

For two clips of our convo — on how science has revived old ideas of God over the past several decades, and the connection between psychedelics and agape — head to our YouTube page. (Charles is the second guest we’ve had who has come out as an LSD experimenter on the show; Rod Dreher was the other one.)

Other topics: how Charles lived for decades without a “God-sized hole”; the security and comfort of modern life; when death and suffering was far more common; the 24/7 distractions of today; meditation retreats; Charles learning TM in Thailand; Quakerism and his wife Catherine’s discovery that she loved her child “more than evolution requires”; how religiosity falls on a bell curve; my Irish grandmother’s faith; “why is there something rather than nothing?”; the Big Bang and fine-tuning; logos; multiverses; the materialism of Dawkins et al; the evolutionary role of religion; CS Lewis; the Golden Rule; pure altruism; the transcendence in nature; near-death experiences; dementia and terminal lucidity; consciousness outside the brain; the soul; the collective consciousness in Buddhism; the strange details of the Gospels; the feminism of Jesus; the adulteress he saved; how grace is contagious; the Nativity; crucifixion and the Resurrection; the Jefferson Bible; the sacraments; the doubt in faith; Oakeshott; “Why We Should Say Yes to Drugs”; my HIV diagnosis; theodicy; Camus; TS Eliot; transhumanism, and the boredom of too much life.

Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: Karen Hao on artificial intelligence, Michel Paradis on Eisenhower, David Ignatius on the Trump effect globally, Mark Halperin on the domestic front, and Arthur Brooks on the science of happiness. As always, please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

Michael is a media critic and author. He’s been a columnist for New York magazine, Vanity Fair, British GQ, the Hollywood Reporter, and the Guardian. Among his many books include four on Donald Trump — the third one we covered on the Dishcast, and the latest was All or Nothing: How Trump Recaptured America. He also co-hosts the podcast “Inside Trump’s Head.”

For two clips of our convo — on Trump’s closest lackeys, and examples of the best resistance to Trump — head to our YouTube page.

Other topics: lawfare as central to spurring Trump to run again; his epic comeback after losing in 2020; retribution; Michael’s dinner with Donald and Melania; the near assassination and “Fight!”; 14 years as a reality TV star; his brilliant campaign stop at McDonald’s; how he met Epstein; their obsession with young models; Karoline Leavitt morphing into a model; the cold arrangement of his marriage to Melania; Ghislaine Maxwell; Bill Clinton; how Trump treats female aides; Lindsey Halligan and the Comey indictment; Susie Wiles; Trump’s surprising pick of Vance; his reluctant choice of Pence; Jared Kushner; Stephen Miller and targeting judges; Don Jr and crypto corruption; Musk’s fundraising; January 6; McConnell’s chance to remove Trump; Trump’s strange deference to Netanyahu; the MAGA fissures over Israel and Epstein; the Mossad conspiracy over Kirk; Tucker 2028; Hegseth’s speech to the generals; sending troops into US cities; Trump’s visit with King Charles; Jerome Powell’s backbone; the law firms, universities, and news outlets that caved; Mamdani; the legendary luck of Trump; and what he might do if Dems take back the House.

Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: Charles Murray on finding religion, Karen Hao on AI, Michel Paradis on Eisenhower, David Ignatius on the Trump effect globally, Mark Halperin on the domestic front, and Arthur Brooks on the science of happiness. As always, please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

Katie is a journalist, podcaster, and longtime friend of the Dish. She’s a former staff writer at The Stranger, and she’s contributed to The Atlantic, The Guardian, The Free Press, and The Weekly Dish. She hosts the podcast “Blocked and Reported” alongside Jesse Singal, and she just wrote her first book, Drink Your Way Sober: The Science-Based Method to Break Free from Alcohol.

For two clips of our convo — how Katie’s drinking became a problem, and why naltrexone isn’t widely known — head to our YouTube page.

Other topics: raised in western Carolina; Katie’s first drink; studying abroad in England for the lower drinking age; Churchill’s boozing; pub culture in the UK; being energized by alcohol vs sedated; chasing the buzz; the cycle of denial; the AA notion that one drink is too many; how rats react to alcohol; the parallels with Ozempic; why I started smoking weed; Ken Burns on Prohibition; the founder of AA; the belladonna and antabuse treatments; the Sinclair Method; why Mormons are so great; why Gen Z is drinking less; Covid alcoholism; the unsightly effects of booze; drinking in secret; the shame of addiction; PrEP; the meth crisis among gays; the high rates of lesbian divorce; Nancy Mace and Megyn Kelly going radical; the belief that recovery should be hard and medication is cheating; AA’s hold on the legal system; opioids; and the massive death toll of alcohol.

Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: Michael Wolff on Epstein, Karen Hao on AI, Charles Murray on finding religion, Michel Paradis on Eisenhower, David Ignatius on the Trump effect globally, Mark Halperin on the domestic front, and Arthur Brooks on the science of happiness. As always, please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.