Jackie was the routesetting director at the Pro Climbing League (PCL) comp and is also the co-founder of Kilter! In this episode, we’ll learn more about the unique challenges that came with setting for PCL, why she thinks it’s important to have more women setting for women’s comps, and how YOU could maybe try climbing the same exact boulders set at PCL.

Guest links:

Kiter’s Website

Jackie’s Instagram

Pro Climbing League Website

Kilter Youtube

Reference links:

Underrated hold

Thank you Mad Rock for sponsoring this episode! Use code 'notrealclimber' for 10% off your ENTIRE order, even if you're a returning customer! https://madrock.com/

Learn more about the podcast at www.thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast.com

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Timestamps of discussion topics

0:00 - Intro

1:20 - Mad Rock Shoutout!!

2:00 - Still cleaning up from PCL

5:42 - Interesting Kilter free-standing option

7:34 - Getting into climbing, setting, and Kilter

13:38 - The political path to becoming an IFSC setter

15:34 - Starting the Woman Up Comps

20:00 - What grade do you need to climb to be a route setter?

22:31 - AUDIENCE Q: How did you build the PCL routesetting team?

28:46 - What made setting different for PCL

32:09 - How to get separation

36:30 - AUDIENCE Q: Was this speed bouldering, was women's setting too easy?

41:57 - Is sanding down holds fair?!

43:47 - Why it's hard to calibrate for female competitors

51:16 - How boulder changeover worked

55:37 - The slab that didn't get shown

58:24 - Different competition strategies

1:03:27 - AUDIENCE Q: Harder to gauge setting than World Cup?

1:04:18 - AUDIENCE Q: Did the setting matter more than a World Cup?

1:07:04 - AUDIENCE Q: Mixed gender events in the future?

1:09:13 - AUDIENCE Q: idea - 2 betas per boulder?

1:11:12 - AUDIENCE Q: Are setters more impressed or annoyed by beta breaks?

1:17:23 - AUDIENCE Q: What makes Kilter stand out?

1:22:30 - Underrated hold?

1:25:02 - Shoutouts and long work hours

1:26:51 - YOU can reset the PCL climbs and experience them!

Mickael is a french boulderer and he is the bouldering world champ from Bern 2023. In this episode, we have an extremely honest conversation about how growing up poor motivated him to make money as a climber, why he stuck with climbing despite the lack of financial prospects, what his training looks like which includes warming up with 80 pull-ups, and of course, what happened during the Bern world champ finals. Shoutout to Madrock for hosting this interview at their headquarters!

Guest links:

Mickael’s Instagram

Reference links:

Climbing with Jonathan Sin Video

Thank you Mad Rock for sponsoring this episode! Use code 'notrealclimber' for 10% off your ENTIRE order, even if you're a returning customer! https://madrock.com/

Learn more about the podcast at www.thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast.com

Follow on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast

Join the FREE community in Discord! https://discord.gg/QTa668g8zp

Join Patreon for a welcome gift, deleted scenes, and question priority: www.patreon.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast

Timestamps of discussion topics

Timestamps of discussion topics

0:00 - Intro

1:30 - Mad Rock Shoutout!!

3:46 - Starting climbing with his brother Bassa

7:45 - AUDIENCE Q: Being one of the few black climbers in the IFSC

13:39 - Affording climbing when growing up poor

24:31 - Pro climbing only pays enough for the present

28:10 - Why he would not choose climbing in hindsight

30:51 - Why he still chose climbing

34:34 - AUDIENCE Q: Will you ever compete again in the IFSC?

38:33 - The goal: be rich

45:25 - Bern World Champs finals boulders

53:26 - Encountering no-tex for the first time ever

1:01:59 - Mickael's crazy pull up training

1:06:12 - How to work on your technique

1:11:47 - The secret to French slab

1:14:28 - Why he trains alone

1:21:59 - Keeping up with the evolution of climbing

1:25:44 - His future in climbing?

1:31:01 - New climbing goal

1:33:38 - AUDIENCE Q: Who were your role models growing up?

1:34:46 - AUDIENCE Q: What's your family like?

1:39:28 - AUDIENCE Q: How to maintain strength without getting injured?

1:44:50 - Where to find Mickael

Mo is a paraclimber in the AU2 class, and she is trying to qualify for the 2028 Paralympics! She has been climbing for over 22 years and had actually retired from competing…until hearing about the Paralympics. In this episode, we’ll learn more about what it’s like climbing with a stump, whether outdoor, indoor, or comp setting is most friendly to her impairment, we’ll talk about petty drama in the community, and what sport shopping is in the Paralympics.

Guest links:

Mo’s Instagram

Mo’s Website

Reference links:

Thank you Mad Rock for sponsoring this episode! Use code 'notrealclimber' for 10% off your ENTIRE order, even if you're a returning customer! https://madrock.com/

Learn more about the podcast at www.thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast.com

Follow on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast

Join the FREE community in Discord! https://discord.gg/QTa668g8zp

Join Patreon for a welcome gift, deleted scenes, and question priority: www.patreon.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast

Timestamps of discussion topics

Timestamps of discussion topics

0:00 - Intro

1:18 - Mad Rock Shoutout!!

1:59 - Lifting at a bro-y gym

3:28 - The 'stump' impairment

7:40 - Getting into climbing and competing

13:39 - Thoughts on gym setting for her stump

22:10 - Becoming a real sport means drama

28:16 - "Training" back then vs real training now

29:29 - World Cup appearances 2026 and 2027

30:55 - What we know about Paralympics qualifications

32:18 - How the Paralympics have changed paraclimbing

35:49 - Paralympic "Sport shopping"

38:09 - Heartbreak over which sport classes got chosen for the Paralympics

42:17 - What her training will look like to qualify at 39 years old

46:44 - Audience Q: What does the process look like to qualify for Paralympics?

48:59 - Dealing with comp nerves

50:49 - Is outdoor climbing more friendly for her stump?

52:38 - Outdoor projects and first ascents

58:00 - AUDIENCE Q: Favorite comp memory?

1:01:02 - AUDIENCE Q: Podium cupcake story?

1:03:20 - AUDIENCE Q: Getting sponsored by North Face and tips for getting sponsors

1:06:20 - Words of wisdom and where to find Mo

Rachel is a Team GB coach and also Erin McNeice’s personal coach! She started as an athlete and competed in youth worlds, but moved down the coaching path shortly after. In this episode, we’ll talk about performance anxiety as an athlete, the difficulties she faced being taken seriously as a young female coach, and we’ll get insight into team GB’s training as well as Erin’s insanely huge team of coaches.

Guest links:

Rachel’s Instagram

Rachel’s Youtube

Reference links:

Thank you Mad Rock for sponsoring this episode! Use code 'notrealclimber' for 10% off your ENTIRE order, even if you're a returning customer! https://madrock.com/

Learn more about the podcast at www.thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast.com

Follow on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast

Join the FREE community in Discord! https://discord.gg/QTa668g8zp

Join Patreon for a welcome gift, deleted scenes, and question priority: www.patreon.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast

Timestamps of discussion topics

Timestamps of discussion topics

0:00 - Intro

1:23 - Mad Rock Shoutout!!

2:03 - Getting ready for British Bouldering Champs

4:41 - Performance anxiety as an athlete

8:59 - Being "realistic" on your performance

13:46 - Becoming a coach

15:44 - AUDIENCE Q: Difference between coaching youth vs senior?

20:48 - Weirdness of coaching your past competition

23:47 - Lack of trust in female coaches

31:44 - AUDIENCE Q: What advice would you give to aspiring female coaches?

34:29 - Erin's crazy huge team of coaches!

40:23 - Team GB's philosophy on training style

43:48 - Erin's 1 weird weakness...

45:47 - Overrated and underrated training techniques?

50:17 - Climbing goals

53:57 - What's better than coaching at the Olympics?

56:44 - AUDIENCE Q: Why was GB Climbing funding so bad?

58:43 - AUDIENCE Q: Team GB is so strong right now, how has that impacted camaraderie amongst athletes?

1:03:05 - AUDIENCE Q: How do you coach the mental side of competition?

1:07:53 - AUDIENCE Q: How do you think new comps like PCL will impact the scene for athletes and coaches?

1:10:05 - AUDIENCE Q: Tips for new coaches?

1:12:47 - Where to find Rachel

Emma is a boulderer on Team GB. 2025 was her debut in the senior world cup circuit and she already made a world cup finals! However, if you don’t recognize her, it may be because that was Prague where her finals round got rained out. In this episode, we’ll go over ALL the mishaps that happened at Prague including an allergic reaction, and we’ll learn about her training schedule, team GB, the climbing culture in commercial gyms, and how often she goes through climbing shoes, which was MIND BLOWING.

Guest links:

Emma’s Instagram

Reference links:

Thank you Mad Rock for sponsoring this episode! Use code 'notrealclimber' for 10% off your ENTIRE order, even if you're a returning customer! https://madrock.com/

Learn more about the podcast at www.thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast.com

Follow on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast

Join the FREE community in Discord! https://discord.gg/QTa668g8zp

Join Patreon for a welcome gift, deleted scenes, and question priority: www.patreon.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast

Timestamps of discussion topics

Timestamps of discussion topics

0:00 - Intro

1:31 - Mad Rock Shoutout!!

2:11 - My annual stretching resolution

5:29 - Used to do 6 days on 1 day off?!

9:29 - Getting into climbing and competing

11:47 - First year in the Senior Circuit

14:28 - Starstruck warming up next to Miho & Janja

16:02 - AUDIENCE Q: Advice for youth climbers transitioning to senior?

17:02 - Climbing styles

20:12 - Prague allergic reaction disaster

24:59 - Prague finals getting rained out

27:31 - AUDIENCE Q: How do you feel about the mental side of comp climbing?

29:51 - Pretty decent prize money! :o

31:40 - Being a taller climber

32:45 - Team GB training in commercial gyms

38:09 - British Youtube + Zoella

39:47 - Season expectations?

42:14 - Toxic Gym Culture?

46:45 - Outdoor Climbing

47:55 - Enjoying sedentary activities

50:29 - Trying to balance training with school

53:27 - AUDIENCE Q: How do you decide what gyms to train at?

55:12 - AUDIENCE Q: Making climbing shoes last?

59:09 - AUDIENCE Q: Favorite boulder from Brussels European cup?

1:00:35 - AUDIENCE Q: What's the difference between TC and world cups?

1:02:42 - AUDIENCE Q: Does your brother climb harder than you yet?

1:04:43 - Words of wisdom and where to find Emma

This is Charlie’s second time on the podcast and he’s back with a big announcement! For those who aren’t familiar, Charlie preceded Matt Groom as the IFSC/World Climbing commentator. This time, he’s back to talk about the brand new competition series, Pro Climbing League. In this episode, we’ll go over all the details of what a PCL competition will look like, the challenges they faced the past 5 years putting this together, and I’m diving into all the finances as well.

Guest links:

PCL Website

PCL Instagram

Charlie’s Instagram

Reference links:

Solo Documentary (Kayaking Story)

Thank you Mad Rock for sponsoring this episode! Use code 'notrealclimber' for 10% off your ENTIRE order, even if you're a returning customer! https://madrock.com/

Learn more about the podcast at www.thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast.com

Follow on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast

Join the FREE community in Discord! https://discord.gg/QTa668g8zp

Join Patreon for a welcome gift, deleted scenes, and question priority: www.patreon.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast

Timestamps of discussion topics

0:00 - Intro

1:33 - Mad Rock Shoutout!!

2:13 - PCL test event

3:32 - IFSC/World Climbing Background

6:17 - What is Pro Climbing League?

11:18 - Live routesetting during a competition

15:21 - YOU may be able to compete!

19:25 - Hardest part of setting up a climbing league

24:25 - Why PCL was started

29:16 - AUDIENCE Q: What prompted the head to head format?

34:18 - AUDIENCE Q: Did you consult with athletes for this format?

40:00 - AUDIENCE Q: Challenges broadcasting this comp?

44:22 - Getting sponsor money for the league

47:08 - Most expensive part

53:00 - AUDIENCE Q: What will the prize money look like?

1:00:07 - I'm addicted to the concept of sports betting

1:05:08 - What does success look like?

1:08:51 - AUDIENCE Q: Future schedule and locations?

1:11:18 - AUDIENCE Q: What aspect of the format excited athletes the most?

1:14:16 - AUDIENCE Q: Will you use adjustable walls for the comp?

1:17:07 - Where to find PCL deets!

Declan and Zoe just competed at the Fukuoka exhibition team event for team USA where they climbed in all 5 boulder and lead rounds! In this episode, we’ll learn about their unorthodox climbing training program here in San Diego, how team selection and strategy worked at Fukuoka, and whether there was added pressure climbing with a team and coach present.

Guest links:

Declan’s Instagram

Zoe’s Instagram

Reference links:

Fukuoka Competition Playlist

Yank n yard stream: Highball boulders comp

Thank you Mad Rock for sponsoring this episode! Use code 'notrealclimber' for 10% off your ENTIRE order, even if you're a returning customer! https://madrock.com/

Learn more about the podcast at www.thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast.com

Follow on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast

Join the FREE community in Discord! https://discord.gg/QTa668g8zp

Join Patreon for a welcome gift, deleted scenes, and question priority: www.patreon.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast

Timestamps of discussion topics

0:00 - Intro

1:23 - Mad Rock Shoutout!!

2:03 - Starting climbing and competing

4:48 - Strength training BAD?!

10:18 - Japan traveling

11:50 - Fukuoka team event selection process

14:28 - Difficulty of the climbs

18:37 - Talking to the coach during the comp

20:59 - Pressure climbing with a coach and teammates

23:51 - Team competition strategies

28:08 - 5 rounds in 3 days

31:06 - First time competing on IFSC livestream

33:15 - The stress of youth competitions

35:34 - World Cup climbing is uncomfortable

40:23 - Lead vs boulder preference

44:37 - Future climbing + education goals

49:26 - Now we're just glazing San Diego

54:41 - Audience Q: Anything you would've wanted to change with the team event?

58:59 - AUDIENCE Q: Memories/advice from youth training?

1:02:17 - Being known as the "benchwarmers' benchwarmers"

1:03:08 - Outdoor goals

1:05:17 - Beating Elden Ring

1:06:28 - Relationship advice from 18 year olds!

1:09:13 - Words of wisdom + where to find Zoe and Declan

You may have heard of him as the slab master, but Hannes is a climber on Team Belgium who just recently got silver in boulder at Arco Rockmasters and also won a bronze in Innsbruck this past 2025 season! In this episode, we’ll go over his 2025 season, get his tips on slab climbing, and learn about how he tries to stay in the right mindset during stressful competitions.

Guest links:

Hannes’ Instagram

Reference links:

Amazing Arco Rockmaster Slab Top

The Backflip of Anger

Thank you Mad Rock for sponsoring this episode! Use code 'notrealclimber' for 10% off your ENTIRE order, even if you're a returning customer! https://madrock.com/

Learn more about the podcast at www.thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast.com

Follow on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast

Join the FREE community in Discord! https://discord.gg/QTa668g8zp

Join Patreon for a welcome gift, deleted scenes, and question priority: www.patreon.com/thatsnotrealclimbingpodcast

Timestamps of discussion topics

0:00 - Intro

1:12 - Mad Rock Shoutout!!

1:56 - Elbow surgery!

4:20 - Rockmasters reflection

10:55 - Getting into climbing and competing

15:27 - Transitioning out of youth comps

17:24 - 2025 season reflection

22:41 - Comps are going back to old-school climbs

26:08 - Instagram influencing world cups

28:44 - Staying in shape throughout a long competition season

32:10 - Lead vs boulder preference

35:43 - Training schedule + lifting vs gaining weight

43:12 - Pressure being the slab master

47:31 - Top slab tips

49:45 - The fickle mental game of comps

52:58 - Power of visualization for mindset

56:55 - The backflip of anger!!

1:00:16 - Taking his driving test

1:05:03 - 2026 goals

1:06:44 - AUDIENCE Q: What is the language situation in team Belgium?

1:09:37 - AUDIENCE Q: Do you think calisthenics/gymnastics is necessary now in comp climbing?

1:11:35 - AUDIENCE Q: How to stay calm during competitions?

1:16:43 - Words of wisdom + where to find Hannes