Norman Finkelstein received his PhD from the Princeton University Politics Department, and is best known for his research on Israel and Palestine. Norman also appeared on episodes 192, 218, 228, and 244, where he addressed the facts and fictions generated by the Israel-Hamas War, October 6th, allegations of genocide and apartheid, Hezbollah, the Holocaust, and more. In this episode, Robinson and Norman discuss Trump, the current state of Gaza, the fate of Palestine, wokeness, Bernies Sanders, Chuck Schumer, antisemitism, free speech, and other topics. Norman’s most recent book is I’ll Burn That Bridge When I Get to It! Heretical Thoughts on Identity Politics, Cancel Culture, and Academic Freedom (Sublation Media, 2023).

Norman’s Website: https://www.normanfinkelstein.com

OUTLINE

00:01:11 Norman’s Predictions for the War

00:10:12 Trump and the End of the Ceasefire

00:14:29 Why Didn’t The Democrats Strike a Ceasefire in Israel?

00:25:50 A Jeremy Corbin Witch Hunt?

00:29:52 On Wokeness and DEI

00:54:01 Bernie Sanders and the Working Class

00:57:16 Bernie Sanders, Chuck Schumer, and Anti-Semitism

01:04:17 Is Trump a Slave to Money, Power, and Putin?

01:11:02 Is Chuck Schumer’s Definition of Anti-Semitism Terrible?

01:19:52 Free Speech and Academia

01:24:34 How Norman Feels About Being Academically Canceled

01:27:45 On Noam Chomsky’s Deceptiveness

01:29:42 More on the Cancelation

01:34:13 How Should We Define Anti-Semitism?

01:43:45 What Should We Do With Holocaust Deniers?

01:47:14 On W.E.B Du Bois

01:58:31 On Race and IQ

02:01:35 Suppression of Free Speech

02:09:02 How to Prevent Another Holocaust

02:18:18 Chuck Schumer is Wrong About Media Echo Chambers

02:22:01 How to Fight Violent Hate

02:35:58 On Chuck Schumer’s Backstory and the Holocaust

02:40:05 Cleaning the Augean Stables of Gaza Scholarship

02:46:21 What Changed on October 7th

02:48:59 Gaza Is Already Rubble: What’s Next?

Chris Hedges is a Pulitzer Prize–winning author and journalist who was a foreign correspondent for fifteen years for The New York Times. He has covered numerous wars across the decades, written many books—including America: The Farewell Tour and American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America—and has been involved in work for prisoner advocacy. In this episode, Robinson and Chris discuss Donald Trump, Elon Musk, and the rise of American fascism. More particularly, they address comparisons between Trump and Hitler, DOGE, the new crisis for the Democratic Party, Israel and Palestine, the Christian far right, Marxism, and more. Chris’s latest book is A Genocide Foretold (Penguin Random House, 2025).

Chris’s YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/@chrishedgeschannel?si=XIMAFyQFmWGoYyuO

The Chris Hedges Report Substack: https://chrishedges.substack.com

A Genocide Foretold: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/786808/a-genocide-foretold-by-chris-hedges/

OUTLINE

00:00:00 Introduction

00:00:59 PTSD and Weightlifting

00:06:49 The Decline of the American Empire

00:11:10 The Strongest Dimension of Trump’s Presidency

00:17:20 Was Hitler a Better Speaker than Trump?

00:19:54 How the Democratic Party Sold Out the Working Class

00:22:21 Elon Musk and the Oligarchic Takeover of America

00:28:26 Is Elon Musk Wrong About the Efficiency of Government?

00:31:02 What Is the Deep State?

00:42:46 Is Donald Trump at War with the Deep State?

00:49:23 Infiltrating the Far Right Christian Community

00:54:04 Becoming a Minister

00:57:27 The Christian Right and the Fascist State

01:06:26 The Problem of Evil

01:10:31 On Sadism and the Decline of Empires

01:17:35 Why the Christian Right Supports Israel

01:20:20 How Does Trump Think of Israel?

01:27:38 On How the CIA Attempted to Recruit Him

01:31:06 Is Israel Still Committing Genocide in Gaza?

01:40:25 Chris’s New Book

01:46:24 On His Time with Hamas

01:55:01 Journalism vs Academia

01:58:28 Is Zionism Anti-Semitism?

02:04:52 How to Read the Bible

02:12:01 Where Does Integrity Come From?

02:22:26 Dehumanization in Palestine

02:26:15 On Marxism and Elon Musk

02:31:16 The Farewell Tour

02:35:34 On Trump’s Love of TV

02:37:50 On Reporting the Middle East

02:39:56 Russia and Ukraine

02:42:59 Growing Wealth Disparities in the United States

02:46:56 Fascist Attacks on Education

02:51:39 The Dark Future of the Press

02:57:30 Could the American Empire Be Revived?

Robinson’s Website: http://robinsonerhardt.com

Robinson Erhardt researches symbolic logic and the foundations of mathematics at Stanford University.

Richard Wolff is Professor Emeritus of Economics at the University of Massachusetts Amherst and a visiting professor at The New School, where he works on economics in the Marxist tradition. This is Richard’s eighth appearance on Robinson’s Podcast. In his last appearance, episode #243, he and Robinson discussed 2025 and the first weeks of Trump’s presidency, as well as what’s to come. More particularly, they discuss the irrelevance of Donald Trump, his domestic and global policies, China, narratives on the right and left, and the future of the United States. In this episode, they continue the discussion by diving deeper into recent events, Doge, Elon Musk, the relationship between Trump and Hitler, and important historical Marxists. Richard’s latest book is Understanding Capitalism (Democracy at Work, 2024).

Understanding Capitalism (Book): https://www.democracyatwork.info/understanding_capitalism

Richard’s Website: https://www.rdwolff.com

Economic Update: https://www.democracyatwork.info/economicupdate

OUTLINE

00:00:00 Introduction

00:01:27 What Do Trump and Hitler Have in Common?

00:09:42 Is This the Democratic Party’s Worst Crisis?

00:14:58 Is Trump’s Economic Policy a Hail Mary?

00:26:29 The Mexican Deportation Crisis

00:30:19 Global Retaliation Against American Tariffs

00:33:29 America’s Big Mistake with Russian Sanctions

00:40:50 Trump’s Big TikTok Mistake

00:47:05 How Adolf Hitler Came to Power in Germany

01:08:40 Does Elon Musk Symbolize the End of America?

01:16:07 How Bosses Lie When They Fire You

01:23:08 On Elon Musk’s Chainsaw Public Relations Disaster

01:28:52 On the Drowning American Empire

01:34:36 On Elon Musk and the Self-Destruction of Tesla

01:39:27 Feudalism, Communism, and the Death of Capitalism

01:46:22 Does China Represent a New Breed of Capitalism?

01:55:16 What Can the United States Do to Beat China?

02:03:46 What Makes Mao an Important Marxist?

02:17:56 Richard Wolff’s Mediocre Ivy League Education

02:23:59 How Mao Made the China of Today

02:40:39 The Myth of European Global Dominance

02:52:08 On Antonio Gramsci and Mussolini

02:57:03 Why Is Gramsci One of the Great Marxists?

Robinson’s Website: http://robinsonerhardt.com

Robinson Erhardt researches symbolic logic and the foundations of mathematics at Stanford University.