I have a fascination with how SaaS products actually get made—especially those that become institutions in the software landscape.

As users, we become deeply familiar with these products, the nitty-gritty of how they work, and what it's like to live inside them. People base entire careers on these platforms.

What we usually DON'T see is the backstory:

• How do these great products get designed?
• What were the decisions and trade-offs along the way?
• How do they catch on?
• How do you create lovable features?
• What causes great products to often stagnate?

Today's guest is a legendary product leader and innovator. As the first employee of Marketo, Glen Lipka led the product team during a critical early phase, building many of its still most-beloved features.

This episode is packed with Marketo lore, product design insights, and lessons about how to build a product that users love.

Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.

If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.

You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.

What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.

Try Knak

Glen Lipka is a 25+ year veteran of product innovation and design. As Chief Design Officer and first employee at Marketo, he built the flagship product. He has held numerous other product leadership roles and is currently VP of Product Design for Crowdstrike.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/glenlipka/

• [00:00] - Introduction
• [01:14] - Glen’s start at Marketo
• [02:56] - Marketo’s first features
• [13:36] - Product differentiation
• [20:37] - Developing the concept of marketing automation
• [26:00] - Why great products start to suck
• [40:46] - Hubspot as a product company
• [44:19] - AI

• Glen's series of retrospective articles on building Marketo
• Glen's personal blog

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What does it take to scale a company from $100M to over $1B in ARR?

Cody Guymon has taken a journey that most revenue operators could only dream of—helping Qualtrics scale to an $8B acquisition and then a $27B IPO. Now he's back at an earlier stage company, hoping to repeat the trip all over again.

We chat through his lessons learned, his forecasting methodology, and how he architected a unified RevOps function with the CEO before joining Workato.

Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.

If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.

You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.

What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.

Try Knak

Cody Guymon is a strategic sales and operations leader, leading teams at Vivint, Qualtrics, and now Workato. He helped scale Qualtrics from a $1B unicorn to an $8B SAP acquisition and then through an IPO at a $20B+ valuation. Today he serves as the COO of GTM Operations at Workato.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/codyguymon/

• [00:00] - Introduction
• [01:07] - What is GTM operations?
• [03:50] - Working 1-1 with reps in the field
• [04:46] - Creating a truly unified GTM ops function
• [16:56] - Go-to-market analytics
• [19:16] - Pros and cons of unification
• [23:29] - Project planning and prioritization
• [30:17] - Forecasting and thinking long-term
• [39:24] - Experience at Qualtrics and SAP
• [47:03] - Cody’s daily routines

Big thanks goes out UserGems for sponsoring today’s episode.

We all know that outbound is really tough. Now imagine a world where you’re reaching people who know your product, love your product, and are actually happy to hear from you.

UserGems makes that a reality. They identify your customers and champions who change jobs and automatically push new contacts to your CRM so your team can follow up.

If you’re not reaching out to customer job changers, you’re missing opportunities. Click the link below for a special offer just for my listeners.

Try UserGems

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There's a set of skills we rely on everyday at work, often without realizing it: how we think about problems, make decisions, market our ideas, manage up, give feedback...they're all part of the operating system of how we interface with the business world.

I’m fascinated by these things both because they have a massive impact on our effectiveness and because they often go unexamined. They’re just part of how we operate. But what if our ways of working are holding us back? What if we could optimize them and radically improve our performance?

Today's guest is a serial entrepreneur, marketer, and operator. These days she focuses on exploring and writing about these "deceivingly basic" topics in one of my favourite newsletters, which reaches more than 250,000 people.

Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.

If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.

You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.

What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.

Try Knak

Wes Kao is an entrepreneur, speaker, coach, and advisor who writes at newsletter.weskao.com. She is co-founder of Maven, an edtech company that raised $25M from First Round and Andreessen Horowitz. Previously, she co-founded the altMBA with bestselling author Seth Godin.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/weskao/

• [00:00] - Introduction
• [01:28] - Why write about “deceivingly basic” topics
• [06:56] - Rigorous thinking
• [10:43] - Building a culture of rigorous thinking
• [21:10] - Bottom line up front
• [26:39] - Relationship with your manager
• [37:23] - Change management
• [41:32] - Empathy
• [44:09] - Being a LinkedIn creator

This November, MOps-Apalooza is back in sunny, Anaheim, California, and it's going to be the marketing ops event of the year, packed with hands-on learning from real practitioners.

This is the only truly community-led tech-agnostic MOPS conference out there. It's got the best speakers, the best networking, the best social events, and maybe even a trip to Disneyland. This isn't your 50,000 person tech company conference. It's an intimate gathering of folks who are in the trenches every day.

Registration is capped at 700 attendees, and tickets are going fast.

MOps-Apalooza 2024

• Wes Kao's Newsletter

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Running business systems at enterprise scale has some unique challenges—especially when that enterprise is Hubspot.

Today we're fortunate to chat with Rich Archbold, whose team supports all GTM systems and automation at Hubspot, including Hubspot's own Hubspot implementation.

This is a truly fascinating peek behind the scenes at one of the most iconic tech companies. Rich also shares generously from his deep experience, providing insights into how to foster a culture of agility, customer-centricity, and impact within a business systems team.

Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.

If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.

You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.

What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.

Try Knak

Rich Archbold is VP of Engineering for GTM Systems at Hubspot. He is passionate about building and scaling high-performing, highly engaged teams that build and operate world-class, mission-critical technology products and services. Prior to Hubspot, he held business systems and engineering leadership roles at Intercom, Facebook, and Amazon.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/richardarchbold/

• [00:00] - Introduction
• [01:06] - Transitioning from engineering to business systems
• [10:42] - GTM systems team structure at Hubspot
• [15:17] - Centralized vs. decentralized systems ownership
• [20:51] - Hubspot’s tech stack
• [23:02] - Can Hubspot work at enterprise scale?
• [25:11] - Hubspot Prospecting Workspace
• [31:16] - Use of Workato
• [33:24] - Lead processing systems
• [36:23] - Data quality
• [46:22] - Prioritization

This November, MOps-Apalooza is back in sunny, Anaheim, California, and it's going to be the marketing ops event of the year, packed with hands-on learning from real practitioners.

This is the only truly community-led tech-agnostic MOPS conference out there. It's got the best speakers, the best networking, the best social events, and maybe even a trip to Disneyland. This isn't your 50,000 person tech company conference. It's an intimate gathering of folks who are in the trenches every day.

Registration is capped at 700 attendees, and tickets are going fast.

MOps-Apalooza 2024

• 6 things I learned the hard way leading business systems

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I'm a really big believer in the idea of a unified RevOps function supporting all the go-to-market teams.

But I'll be honest, sometimes it's a little discouraging when I look at how RevOps is done in practice, because outside of a few examples, I usually see essentially a sales ops function with a new name.

So I wanted to find people who are actually leading a unified RevOps team in the real world and to understand how they're doing it and how it's working out for them.

Today's guest is leading a very mature RevOps function at Electric and has a ton of practical insight to share.

Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.

If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.

You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.

What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.

Try Knak

Julia Kim is VP of Revenue Operations for Electric and an Adjunct Instructor at Columbia University. She has over 10 years experience as an operations executive and has launched award-winning consumer and SaaS products mentioned in the Wall Street Journal, Forbes, Forrester, and TechCrunch.

Before Electric, she led GTM operations for 4 profitable acquisitions. In addition to her RevOps experience, she has a technical background with a recent focus in artificial intelligence and predictive data modelling.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/juliajuleskim/

• [00:00] - Introduction
• [01:50] - Definition of Revenue Operations
• [03:40] - RevOps at different stages of maturity
• [09:09] - Deep dive on Julia’s team structure
• [14:00] - Collaboration within the RevOps team
• [21:52] - Addressing concerns about unifying the ops functions
• [28:07] - Identifying biggest opportunities for impact
• [37:19] - Relationship with data team
• [40:11] - Change management and enablement
• [47:37] - RevOps and AI
• [55:11] - What’s a current challenge?

Big thanks goes out UserGems for sponsoring today’s episode.

We all know that outbound is really tough. Now imagine a world where you’re reaching people who know your product, love your product, and are actually happy to hear from you.

UserGems makes that a reality. They identify your customers and champions who change jobs and automatically push new contacts to your CRM so your team can follow up.

If you’re not reaching out to customer job changers, you’re missing opportunities. Click the link below for a special offer just for my listeners.

Try UserGems

Visit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter:

Newsletter

Every company pays lip service to privacy. But few seem to really value it in practice.

In marketing and sales, we rely on personal and behavioural data for so many commonplace tactics, and this reliance is only increasing.

It's a kind of arms race. Even if you wanted to, it feels like you can't afford to give up the perceived advantages of using personal data.

And even as we continually hear about the "death" of this or that type of tracking, the reality is that hundreds of billions of advertising revenue are on the line. The incentives to keep collecting and commodifying our data are huge.

I wanted to dig deeper into the current state of privacy in marketing today, and I could think of no better person to reach out to than Stephane Hamel.

He is a legendary practitioner and thought leader in the digital analytics space and one of the foremost advocates for privacy and ethics in marketing.

Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.

If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.

You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.

What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.

Try Knak

Stephane Hamel is a digital analytics and marketing expert with over 35 years experience. He has spoken at over 150 industry events and was named one of the Most Influential Industry Contributors by the Digital Analytics Association. As an educator, he’s taught thousands of students at institutions including UBC, SimpliLearn, ULaval, Harvard, YorkU, and others. In recent years, he’s focused his attention on the ethical use of data in a marketing context

https://www.linkedin.com/in/shamel/

• [00:00] - Introduction
• [01:49] - Current state of privacy in marketing
• [03:30] - Vision of a truly privacy-oriented company
• [08:20] - How a 100% consent-based model would work
• [10:59] - Is privacy-respecting marketing better marketing?
• [13:26] - Analogy of seatbelts
• [17:32] - Getting people to care about privacy
• [20:50] - Advertising in a privacy-first world
• [24:21] - Conflict between privacy and commercial interests
• [31:41] - Google and the “death” of third-party cookies
• [36:47] - AI literacy
• [41:44] - Career impact of being privacy-oriented

Visit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter:

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Refine Labs has had a seismic impact on B2B marketing.

Whether you agree with their philosophy or not, it's hard to deny its influence. They've set the agenda, defined the terms of the debate, and challenged many aspects of the status quo.

Former CEO Chris Walker catapulted the agency to prominence with his LinkedIn thought leadership. But behind the scenes, there's also been an intricate operational odyssey to scale Refine Labs from scratch to nearly 100 employees.

Today's guest, Megan Bowen, partnered with Chris from the beginning as COO before taking over as CEO in January of 2024. In this no-holds-barred episode, she shares an operational perspective on building Refine Labs, with candid stories and insights about scaling a service-based business, riding the hyper-growth rollercoaster, and weathering economic storms.

Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.

If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.

You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.

What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.

Try Knak

Over her 20+ year career, Megan Bowen has built and scaled go-to-market teams at eChalk, ZocDoc, Grubhub/Seamless (IPO: 2014), ManagedbyQ (WeWork Acquisition: 2019) and Platterz.

In 2020, she teamed up with the Founder of Refine Labs to change the way B2B companies go-to-market.

Today, she is the CEO of Refine Labs, A B2B Demand Generation Agency.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/meganwhitebowen/

• [00:00] - Introduction
• [01:32] - Megan’s background
• [07:06] - Building Refine Labs
• [14:15] - Stepping into the CEO role
• [16:34] - Prioritizing the health of your team
• [21:56] - Segmenting clients and service levels
• [23:54] - Packaging, pricing, and service design
• [25:46] - Transparency in the sales process
• [27:43] - Achieving consistent service quality when scaling the team
• [31:21] - Onboarding process
• [31:59] - Balancing supply and demand in agency staffing
• [35:23] - Transparency around layoffs
• [37:12] - Evolution of Refine Labs methodology
• [40:36] - Partnership with Aspireship

• Refine Labs | Leading B2B Demand Generation Agency
• Refine Labs x Aspireship - Get subsidized access to the Refine Labs IP library with Aspireship.

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I think marketing is one of the toughest functions to lead successfully.

Your job is part art, part science. You need to hire, coach, and retain talent with a huge range of skillsets that you may even not be master of yourself—from the creative to the analytical to the technical.

And then your job is to simultaneously create demand, capture demand, help sales convert that demand, help customer success retain and expand that demand...your job is never done.

Today we chat with one of my favourite marketing leaders, Thao Ngo. We'll explore her unconventional marketing strategy and also her leadership playbook—how she grows her team and creates an environment where people do their best work.

Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.

If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.

You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.

What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners.

Try Knak

Thao Ngo is a senior B2B marketing leader with 20+ years of experience in building world-class teams, generating sales-ready leads, and creating brand awareness for tech companies of various sizes. She's led marketing teams at Elastic Path, Vision Critical, and SensorUp, and is currently SVP of Marketing at Uptempo.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/thaongo/

• [00:00] - Introduction
• [01:09] - What makes a great marketer?
• [02:40] - Evolution of marketing skills
• [04:48] - How to use data
• [06:25] - Marketing leadership and operating rhythms
• [09:30] - Trust and psychological safety
• [12:49] - Coaching and feedback
• [24:32] - First hires on a marketing team
• [25:43] - Division of labour between CMO and VP
• [28:05] - What keeps Thao up at night
• [29:47] - The marketing planning process
• [36:24] - Influencer / community marketing programs
• [47:13] - A day in the life of Thao

• Live MOps Huddles

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