Josh has spoken on many occasions about his time with Zipp. The engineering. The R&D. The wins. The fails. Josh was part of a team that changed the scene, both for pro and amateur racers.

At the head of that team was Andy Ording. Andy took over Zipp from Leigh Sargent in 1998 and guided it through its glory days that Josh is so fond of. Andy's journey to carbon wheels is far from linear. A native of South Africa, he eventually found his way to the states via motorcycles. Andy's strengths are in sales and logistics and those strengths eventually led him to the bike industry.

In this episode, Andy and Josh swap Zipp stories. They also share insights on what it takes to foster new ideas. How empowering people is one of the keys to making the next great Marginal Gain.

Fatty drops a bombshell: he's turning 60 and attempting an Everesting challenge this June — and he needs Josh and Hottie to marginal-gain every aspect of the ride. From course selection and bike setup to tire choice, chain wax strategy, pacing by heart rate, and why a leaf blower might be his secret weapon, the crew breaks down how to get a self-described "card-carrying AARP member with a paunch" up 29,029 feet of climbing on a decade-old bike.

Most of us hardly give those water bottles in our cages a second thought. It's plastic. It's there. It's got what we need. But in the late 20-teens, Carina Hamel and her partner started giving those bidons and second thought. And a third. And a fourth. And like a lot of new ideas, they thought, "There's got to be a better way." Their critical thinking led them to develop Bivo Bottles: stainless steel bottles that fit properly in bike cages.

Since late 2020, Bivo has been trying to convince cyclists that they are better off with a metal bottle than plastic. They've made progress but the ride has not been smooth. First came Covid, which delayed their launch and stalled their grassroots marketing campaign. Then just as they started getting momentum, along came massive tariffs which threatened to end Bivo altogether.

But Bivo is still here and as of this episode, celebrating a five year anniversary. We talk to co-founder Carina Hamel about their ideas, innovations and a chance run in with a NASA engineer.