Ben Goertzel, the researcher who helped popularize the terms "AGI" and “singularity”, as one of the most influential modern champions and systematizers of AGI, returns to Invisible Machines to discuss the decentralization of AI and what's actually missing from today's most advanced systems with Robb Wilson and Josh Tyson.

As enterprises rush to deploy AI agents and LLMs reshape workflows, a critical question emerges: who controls the infrastructure? Goertzel argues that while big tech dominates model development, a tension is building between centralized hegemony and decentralized, open systems — the same dynamic that shaped the internet itself.

In this wide-ranging conversation, Goertzel discusses his current work on Hyperon (the successor to OpenCog) and the ASI Chain, systems designed to enable decentralized AGI development. He explains why the rapid cycles of AI hype and disappointment — the traditional "AI winters and summers" — no longer slow progress the way they once did. The speed of change has accelerated into what he calls a "mathematical singularity," where six-month cycles replace decades-long shifts.

---------- Support our show by supporting our sponsors!

This episode is supported by OneReach.ai

Forged over a decade of R&D and proven in 10,000+ deployments, OneReach.ai’s GSX is the first complete AI agent runtime environment (circa 2019) — a hardened AI agent architecture for enterprise control and scale.

Backed by UC Berkeley, recognized by Gartner, and trusted across highly regulated industries, including healthcare, finance, government and telecommunications.

A complete system for accelerating AI adoption — design, train, test, deploy, monitor, and orchestrate neurosymbolic applications (agents).

• Use any AI models
• Build and deploy intelligent agents fast
• Create guardrails for organizational alignment
• Enterprise-grade security and governance

Request free prototype:

https://onereach.ai/prototype/?utm_source=soundcloud&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=podcast_s7e1&utm_content=1

---------- The revised and significantly updated second edition of our bestselling book about succeeding with AI agents, Age of Invisible Machines, is available everywhere: Amazon — https://bit.ly/4hwX0a5

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We’re in a moment when organizations are approaching agentic AI backwards, chasing flashy use cases instead of building the scaffolding that makes AI agents actually work at scale. Erika Flowers, who led NASA’s AI Readiness Initiative and has advised Meta, Google, Netflix, and Intuit, joins Robb and Josh for a frank and funny conversation about what's broken in enterprise AI adoption. She dismantles the myth of the "big sexy AI use case" and explains why most AI projects fail before they start. The trio makes the case that we're entering a post-software world, whether organizations are ready or not. Listen and learn why the scaffolding— or agent runtime — matters more than use cases, why organizational gaps kill AI projects, how to move projects from pilot to production, and what "post-software" actually means for enterprises.

Check out Erika’s podcast, “Flower Power Hour”: https://open.spotify.com/show/15BTSl9fWiH3QTmVAYj6Fd

Learn more about Erika at

www.helloerikaflowers.com/

0:09 - NASA AI Readiness Explained | Erica Flowers on Agentic AI & Runtimes

1:48 - Why the “Big Sexy AI Use Case” Is a Lie

2:42 - AI Didn’t Start with ChatGPT: What NASA Has Been Doing for 30 Years

4:24 - Why AI Runtimes Matter More Than Any Single Use Case

5:21 - The Hidden AI Problem: Legacy Data, Silos & Organizational Reality

7:13 - The Boring AI That Actually Works (And Why Enterprises Ignore It)

8:10 - The AI Arms Race Nobody Understands

9:22 - AI Scaffolding Explained: The Metaphor Every Leader Needs to Hear

12:12 - AI Readiness Is Cultural Change, Not Just Technology

14:38 - From Parking Lots to Companies: How Simple AI Agents Quietly Scale

17:01 - Why Most AI Features Feel Useless in Real Products

19:08 - Stop Automating Spreadsheets: Ask AI the Question Instead

25:06 - The Post-Software Era: Why Designers Aren’t Enough Anymore

28:33 - UI Is a Medium: How AI Will Absorb Interfaces Entirely

46:24 - Infinite Content, Human Creativity, and the Future After AI

---------- Support our show by supporting our sponsors!

This episode is supported by OneReach.ai

Forged over a decade of R&D and proven in 10,000+ deployments, OneReach.ai’s GSX is the first complete AI agent runtime environment (circa 2019) — a hardened AI agent architecture for enterprise control and scale.

Backed by UC Berkeley, recognized by Gartner, and trusted across highly regulated industries, including healthcare, finance, government and telecommunications.

A complete system for accelerating AI adoption - design, train, test, deploy, monitor, and orchestrate neurosymbolic applications (agents).

• Use any AI models
• Build and deploy intelligent agents fast
• Create guardrails for organizational alignment
• Enterprise-grade security and governance

Request free prototype:

https://onereach.ai/prototype/?utm_source=soundcloud&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=podcast_s6e12&utm_content=1

---------- The revised and significantly updated second edition of our bestselling book about succeeding with AI agents, Age of Invisible Machines, is available everywhere: Amazon — https://bit.ly/4hwX0a5

#InvisibleMachines

#Podcast

#TechPodcast

#AIPodcast

#AI

#AgenticAI

#AIAgents

#DigitalTransformation

#AIReadiness

#AIDeployment

#AISoftware

#AITransformation

#AIAdoption

#AIProjects

#NASA

#AgentRuntime

#Innovation

#AIUseCase

As 2025 draws to a close, Robb and Josh look back on some of the conversations they had this year both on the podcast and advising major enterprises and government leaders to offer their predictions for agentic AI in 2026. With major disruptive forces like outbound AI in the hands of consumers and agent runtime environments allowing organizations to create scalable infrastructure for AI agents, next year could see seismic changes in the way investors look at companies, and the ways companies look at themselves. Featuring a look at the components of an agent runtime, as well as previews of upcoming episodes with returning guest Ben Goertzel of SingularityNET and Joshua Gans, co-author of Prediction Machines, this episode is required viewing for anyone charged with finding ROI with agentic AI.

00:00 – Introduction to 2026 Agentic AI Predictions

01:12 – Outbound AI Arrives

02:30 – Scaling vs. Inventing AI

04:55 – Ben Goertzel Preview

06:45 – Scrappy Innovation in AI

08:20 – Invisible Work Explained

10:00 – Agents Job-Hunting for You

11:15 – Bottom-Up AI Adoption

13:10 – Layoffs, Knowledge Loss & AI

15:00 – The “Fake AI Expert” Problem

16:25 – Why Runtimes Matter

18:00 – What IDWs Actually Do

20:00 – Canonical Knowledge for Agents

28:20 – Invisible Work Demo

37:10 – Simulation Becomes the Next Frontier

---------- Support our show by supporting our sponsors!

This episode is supported by OneReach.ai

Forged over a decade and proven in 10,000+ deployments, OneReach.ai’s GSX is the first complete AI agent runtime environment (circa 2019) — a hardened AI agent architecture for enterprise control and scale.

Backed by UC Berkeley, recognized by Gartner, and trusted across highly regulated industries, including healthcare, finance, government and telecommunications.

A complete system for accelerating AI adoption - design, train, test, deploy, monitor, and orchestrate neurosymbolic applications (agents).

• Use any AI models
• Build and deploy intelligent agents fast
• Create guardrails for organizational alignment
• Enterprise-grade security and governance



Request free prototype:

https://onereach.ai/prototype/?utm_source=soundcloud&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=podcast_s6e11&utm_content=1

---------- The revised and significantly updated second edition of our bestselling book about succeeding with AI agents, Age of Invisible Machines, is available everywhere: Amazon — https://bit.ly/4hwX0a5

#InvisibleMachines

#Podcast

#TechPodcast

#AIPodcast

#AI

#AgenticAI

#AIAgents

#DigitalTransformation

#AI2026

#2026Predictions

#ArtificialIntelligence

#FutureOfWork

#AITrends

#AIRuntime

#IntelligentDigitalWorkers

#AIInvestment

#EnterprisAI

#AIStrategy

#AIROIStrategy

#AITransformation

#InvisibleMachines

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